RedTen customers lose broadband service (again)
Tuesday 24 June 2008 15:19:00 by John Hunt
Yesterday, ISPreview uncovered some bad news for RedTen broadband customers following an announcement by the RedTen supplier NJPServices, that they were ceasing supply of broadband services to RedTen customers at the end of the month. This followed news earlier this year where BT disconnected the service of RedTen customers due to repeated non-payment. At this point, NJP picked up provision of the service and has done so for the last three months.
RedTen have always had a controversial service--When first launched, the service offered a free computer with the broadband connection as long as you maintained the contract for 3 years. In February 2007 RedTen's parent company, Watford Electronics was bought out by another company known as Globally Ltd which operated from the same address as RedTen, but were a separate legal entity. It seems the free PC offer was withdrawn for new customers at this point.
Now it appears that a different company, Fatcat Communications, has started to contact RedTen customers after acquiring some of their assets. Again, the company appears to be operating from the same address as Watford Electronics and the original company behind RedTen, with the domain name (fatcatinternet.com) being registered to the address of Clode Retail Finance, the finance company behind RedTen. Fatcat have told users that they will be responsible for provision of Broadband services.
In another twist, NJPservices have actually cut off service today according to users at moneysavingexpert.com, earlier than originally stated and have placed users in a walled garden (so the only webpage they can access is that with a copy of the message in the original e-mail).
Users caught up in this mess may wish to contact NJPServices and ask for a MAC code so you can migrate your service to another provider, although be aware that if you have received a PC your contract with Clode may still be enforceable so you should seek advice (from a Solicitor or the Citizens Advice Bureau) as to whether you are required to continue to pay for this first.
The letters sent to RedTen customers can be seen at ISPreview.
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Posted by
carrot63 7 months ago
>>If nothing else, I'd think someone should have a quiet word with their PR department!
Or maybe they're just being unusually honest for a telecoms firm?
>>If nothing else, I'd think someone should have a quiet word with their PR department!
Or maybe they're just being unusually honest for a telecoms firm?
Posted by
CARPETBURN 7 months ago
PR Department... You must be joking they obviously dont even have a department to pay bills or keep services running without 21st century things like PR
PR Department... You must be joking they obviously dont even have a department to pay bills or keep services running without 21st century things like PR
Posted by
CaptainW 7 months ago
Perhaps the Board of Directors are actually the same as those that take seats in the board room at BT HQ and when they were sat with their afternoon tea and biscuits, brainstorming thought that they needed something very close to home :)
Perhaps the Board of Directors are actually the same as those that take seats in the board room at BT HQ and when they were sat with their afternoon tea and biscuits, brainstorming thought that they needed something very close to home :)
Posted by
keith_thfc 6 months ago
"Fatcat Communications"
Well I can't think of a better word to describe the shoddy business practices of Watford Electronics and its offspring companies over the past few years.
"Fatcat Communications"
Well I can't think of a better word to describe the shoddy business practices of Watford Electronics and its offspring companies over the past few years.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
What's the connection with BT?
What's the connection with BT?
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
TANSTAAFL
TANSTAAFL
Posted by
kingbaz 6 months ago
Hide and Seek
Time for this game to stop,its not a game for the VICTIMS.
Regulator? Goverment? Who allows it to take place.
Hide and Seek
Time for this game to stop,its not a game for the VICTIMS.
Regulator? Goverment? Who allows it to take place.
Posted by
lloydio 6 months ago
yes saverstore was another aweful example of how they run their businesses. although i hear savastore is fine now under the new owners.
yes saverstore was another aweful example of how they run their businesses. although i hear savastore is fine now under the new owners.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"What's the connection with BT?"
You mean apart from them pulling the plug on the company originally for not paying bills and leaving lots of people just like you and I in the lurch with no service? Both companies as bad as each other in a way.
quote"What's the connection with BT?"
You mean apart from them pulling the plug on the company originally for not paying bills and leaving lots of people just like you and I in the lurch with no service? Both companies as bad as each other in a way.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
If they don't pay the bills what do they expect? Surely they knew what would happen.
If they don't pay the bills what do they expect? Surely they knew what would happen.
Posted by
cageyr 6 months ago
I paid Redten for 3yrs in advance in 2006. Now after being cut off by Redten for the second time, I have done the sensible thing and taken my MAC and moved ISP. Redten have been uncontactable since March 2008. Avoid them and any reincarnation (eg Fatcat Internet) like the plague. They just want your money and will dump you if their business model proves wrong (which it usually is).
I paid Redten for 3yrs in advance in 2006. Now after being cut off by Redten for the second time, I have done the sensible thing and taken my MAC and moved ISP. Redten have been uncontactable since March 2008. Avoid them and any reincarnation (eg Fatcat Internet) like the plague. They just want your money and will dump you if their business model proves wrong (which it usually is).
Posted by
daddyman1967 6 months ago
Less than a week into the supply of unlimited internet by FATCAT and they are restricting customers access. I received an email tonight saying that I was breaking their fair use policy. I had requested a copy of the policy twice and just got it this morning. 400 mb of bandwidth used since they sent the email and I'm restricted!!!!! These people seem to have no morals and are just out for a quick buck.
Less than a week into the supply of unlimited internet by FATCAT and they are restricting customers access. I received an email tonight saying that I was breaking their fair use policy. I had requested a copy of the policy twice and just got it this morning. 400 mb of bandwidth used since they sent the email and I'm restricted!!!!! These people seem to have no morals and are just out for a quick buck.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"If they don't pay the bills what do they expect? Surely they knew what would happen."
Indeed and its not wrong for them to cut off Redten for not paying bills, I agree with that. However, it is wrong for BT to pull a plug on a company and then subject members of the public to the hassle of trying to get some other company out there to reconnect them to a broadband service... Again its a case of BTs pockets come first, the paying customer who puts the majority of that money in their pockets each month with line rental and more though come a distinct second.
quote"If they don't pay the bills what do they expect? Surely they knew what would happen."
Indeed and its not wrong for them to cut off Redten for not paying bills, I agree with that. However, it is wrong for BT to pull a plug on a company and then subject members of the public to the hassle of trying to get some other company out there to reconnect them to a broadband service... Again its a case of BTs pockets come first, the paying customer who puts the majority of that money in their pockets each month with line rental and more though come a distinct second.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
Maybe BT should had pulled Redtens plug but also thought about customers and as BT are partly responsible those customers were left without service immediately connected them to their own network instead. Or better yet, sent those people a MAC a week or so before they pulled Redtens plug huh? That way the ordinary job bloggs wouldnt had been as affected, and put through the pain of getting reconnected... BT have punished Redten yes, but they also punished innocents in the situation, as i said both as bad as each other, one company pikeys that dont pay bills, the other a power mad dictator.
Maybe BT should had pulled Redtens plug but also thought about customers and as BT are partly responsible those customers were left without service immediately connected them to their own network instead. Or better yet, sent those people a MAC a week or so before they pulled Redtens plug huh? That way the ordinary job bloggs wouldnt had been as affected, and put through the pain of getting reconnected... BT have punished Redten yes, but they also punished innocents in the situation, as i said both as bad as each other, one company pikeys that dont pay bills, the other a power mad dictator.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
These people are customers of Redten, nothing to do with being 'punished by BT'. Simple.
I don't see how BT Wholesale could have connected them to BT Retail Broadband, or any other ISP, without a contract etc.
These people are customers of Redten, nothing to do with being 'punished by BT'. Simple.
I don't see how BT Wholesale could have connected them to BT Retail Broadband, or any other ISP, without a contract etc.
Posted by
Dawn_Falcon 6 months ago
Carpet, there is no mechanism for BT to do anything but disconnect. Ofcom should have a structure for bulk-issue of MAC's in that situation, but they don't.
Carpet, there is no mechanism for BT to do anything but disconnect. Ofcom should have a structure for bulk-issue of MAC's in that situation, but they don't.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
Another CB dig at BT, he's a bit sad.
Another CB dig at BT, he's a bit sad.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
BT have the ability to offer people access to their network if a company is going bankrupt, or experiencing any types of issues.... Plusnet did an offer for Pipex/Tiscali customers, when that whole shambles started.... If BT pull the plug on a company the least they could of done is offer people something similar to that.... They didnt though and just pulled the plug no warning to them or their customers.
BT have the ability to offer people access to their network if a company is going bankrupt, or experiencing any types of issues.... Plusnet did an offer for Pipex/Tiscali customers, when that whole shambles started.... If BT pull the plug on a company the least they could of done is offer people something similar to that.... They didnt though and just pulled the plug no warning to them or their customers.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
The aggro people are now experiencing is down to 2 simple things..... redten not paying bills, and BT cutting them off. I dont for a second think there was any notice given to redten or customers, if there was we would of heard about in on sites like this.
The aggro people are now experiencing is down to 2 simple things..... redten not paying bills, and BT cutting them off. I dont for a second think there was any notice given to redten or customers, if there was we would of heard about in on sites like this.
Posted by
johnny99 6 months ago
Presumably RedTen are a customer of BT Wholesale who are regulated. It would be unfair competition if they were to tip off & offer BT Retail's services but no other ISP
Presumably RedTen are a customer of BT Wholesale who are regulated. It would be unfair competition if they were to tip off & offer BT Retail's services but no other ISP
Posted by
adagio 6 months ago
Like it or not the directors of BT responsibility is to their shareholders. Even if they were still a state owned business it would, in my view, be quite unreasonable to expect them to ride to the rescue of the customers of every failed, fly-by-night ISP. Moral hazard?
Like it or not the directors of BT responsibility is to their shareholders. Even if they were still a state owned business it would, in my view, be quite unreasonable to expect them to ride to the rescue of the customers of every failed, fly-by-night ISP. Moral hazard?
Posted by
pattester 6 months ago
This company should not be allowed to trade they diddled people out of the free computer even after they signed up they screwed my internet connection up and it took three months to get it sorted and what did I get from them nothing but threatening letters good ridden’s to bad rubbish.
This company should not be allowed to trade they diddled people out of the free computer even after they signed up they screwed my internet connection up and it took three months to get it sorted and what did I get from them nothing but threatening letters good ridden’s to bad rubbish.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"Presumably RedTen are a customer of BT Wholesale who are regulated. It would be unfair competition if they were to tip off & offer BT Retail's services but no other ISP"
Why would it, other ISPs have made offers and deals to people of dead or dying ISPs in the past.
quote"...in my view, be quite unreasonable to expect them to ride to the rescue of the customers of every failed, fly-by-night ISP. Moral hazard?"
Who said anything about "EVERY" in this case they cut off redten and thus they are partly responsible for grief customers have suffered.
quote"Presumably RedTen are a customer of BT Wholesale who are regulated. It would be unfair competition if they were to tip off & offer BT Retail's services but no other ISP"
Why would it, other ISPs have made offers and deals to people of dead or dying ISPs in the past.
quote"...in my view, be quite unreasonable to expect them to ride to the rescue of the customers of every failed, fly-by-night ISP. Moral hazard?"
Who said anything about "EVERY" in this case they cut off redten and thus they are partly responsible for grief customers have suffered.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
BT are in no way responsible for what RedTen does or does not do.
BT are in no way responsible for what RedTen does or does not do.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"BT are in no way responsible for what RedTen does or does not do."
Really? So using that theory they could cut of every ISP that has to pay them in some way shape or form if the ISP doesnt pay their bills or does something BT dont like?? I think regulators would have a few words to say if that happened.
quote"BT are in no way responsible for what RedTen does or does not do."
Really? So using that theory they could cut of every ISP that has to pay them in some way shape or form if the ISP doesnt pay their bills or does something BT dont like?? I think regulators would have a few words to say if that happened.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
If they break the contract by not paying what would you expect to happen?
If they break the contract by not paying what would you expect to happen?
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"If they break the contract by not paying what would you expect to happen?"
sigh i already explained that
quote"If they break the contract by not paying what would you expect to happen?"
sigh i already explained that
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
BT can't offer them anything as they are not BT customers for broadband. These people are RedTen customers.
BT can't offer them anything as they are not BT customers for broadband. These people are RedTen customers.
Posted by
harryhound1 6 months ago
I'm sure BT could offer them a "free trial" even if it were a free dial up, rather than full BB.
I'm sure BT could offer them a "free trial" even if it were a free dial up, rather than full BB.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
Any ISP could offer a 'free trial'.
Any ISP could offer a 'free trial'.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
Bt could had offered special deals to ex-redten customers (people like plusnet have done it for pipex people that jumped from the sinking ship and so have other companies done similar things)
Also considering a MAC is generated via BT equipment they could had also offered people them right after or just before (literally) cutting redten off.
They are both to blame 2 profit whore companies that put money first and customers second
Bt could had offered special deals to ex-redten customers (people like plusnet have done it for pipex people that jumped from the sinking ship and so have other companies done similar things)
Also considering a MAC is generated via BT equipment they could had also offered people them right after or just before (literally) cutting redten off.
They are both to blame 2 profit whore companies that put money first and customers second
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"Any ISP could offer a 'free trial'."
It wasnt any ISP that basically cut thousands off though was it DUUUUUUUUHHHHHH!
quote"Any ISP could offer a 'free trial'."
It wasnt any ISP that basically cut thousands off though was it DUUUUUUUUHHHHHH!
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
It was not BT as an ISP. Completely different.
BT Wholesale has stopped providing a service to RedTen Communications Ltd either because of repeated non-payment of invoices or because RedTen Communications Ltd has stopped trading. This means you will no longer be able to access your broadband service from RedTen Communications Ltd."
It was not BT as an ISP. Completely different.
BT Wholesale has stopped providing a service to RedTen Communications Ltd either because of repeated non-payment of invoices or because RedTen Communications Ltd has stopped trading. This means you will no longer be able to access your broadband service from RedTen Communications Ltd."
Posted by
johnny99 6 months ago
quote 'Why would it, other ISPs have made offers and deals to people of dead or dying ISPs in the past' BT Wholesale are not an ISP. If they told BT Retail(who are an ISP & a customer of BT Wholesale in the same was as any other non BT ISP) that they were about to cut the customers off & thus offering them 1st chance to sign them up then other ISP's would claim unfair competition. I do however agree that this situation should be improved - would probably require Ofcom to come up with something for the Wholesalers to abide by though.
quote 'Why would it, other ISPs have made offers and deals to people of dead or dying ISPs in the past' BT Wholesale are not an ISP. If they told BT Retail(who are an ISP & a customer of BT Wholesale in the same was as any other non BT ISP) that they were about to cut the customers off & thus offering them 1st chance to sign them up then other ISP's would claim unfair competition. I do however agree that this situation should be improved - would probably require Ofcom to come up with something for the Wholesalers to abide by though.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"It was not BT as an ISP. Completely different.
BT Wholesale has stopped providing a service to RedTen Communications Ltd either because of repeated non-payment of invoices"
Oh so you are saying various departments within the BT group dont communicate or think about customers who may of been with redten? Now what was i saying before?
quote"It was not BT as an ISP. Completely different.
BT Wholesale has stopped providing a service to RedTen Communications Ltd either because of repeated non-payment of invoices"
Oh so you are saying various departments within the BT group dont communicate or think about customers who may of been with redten? Now what was i saying before?
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
RedTen are/were a customer of BT Wholesale. They are not allowed to talk to BT Retail about their customer's customers.
Do you expect them BTW to ring up eg. Tiscali and say 'Hello, RedTen is going bust, do you want some new customers?'.
RedTen are/were a customer of BT Wholesale. They are not allowed to talk to BT Retail about their customer's customers.
Do you expect them BTW to ring up eg. Tiscali and say 'Hello, RedTen is going bust, do you want some new customers?'.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
Whatever you say to defend BT more could had been done... There have been stories of ISPs going under or just quitting on here before and another ISP has stepped in to offer those people a way out of the drama and still have a connection..... BT didnt notify anyone they were going to pull redtens plug, if they did maybe it wouldnt of came as a shock to customers... I believe only around last year a similar situation occured with an Enta reseller and enta were happy to announce the situation.
Whatever you say to defend BT more could had been done... There have been stories of ISPs going under or just quitting on here before and another ISP has stepped in to offer those people a way out of the drama and still have a connection..... BT didnt notify anyone they were going to pull redtens plug, if they did maybe it wouldnt of came as a shock to customers... I believe only around last year a similar situation occured with an Enta reseller and enta were happy to announce the situation.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
Infact yep my memory does serve me correctly...
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3179-ace-internet-vs-entanet-saga-continues.html
that situation was NOT massively different to this, the only difference there were enta announced it freely which allowed people to run a mile like rats from a sinking ship. BT no matter how padantic you want to be over departments could had done something similar.... i repeat both companies are as bad as each other.
Infact yep my memory does serve me correctly...
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3179-ace-internet-vs-entanet-saga-continues.html
that situation was NOT massively different to this, the only difference there were enta announced it freely which allowed people to run a mile like rats from a sinking ship. BT no matter how padantic you want to be over departments could had done something similar.... i repeat both companies are as bad as each other.
Posted by
chris_o85 6 months ago
Hmmmm I am 70% sure there are these people with business qualifications that set up CHEAP broadband services. Something had happened to me and thousands other at about over year and half ago (Can't remember name of broadband provider). I paid for a 2 yr contract and only saw 7 months of it before BT cut them off for unpaid bills and they went bust. I think its even happened again before that.
What do Ofcom do all day to prevent this??!!
Your better of doing monthly payments on services.
Hmmmm I am 70% sure there are these people with business qualifications that set up CHEAP broadband services. Something had happened to me and thousands other at about over year and half ago (Can't remember name of broadband provider). I paid for a 2 yr contract and only saw 7 months of it before BT cut them off for unpaid bills and they went bust. I think its even happened again before that.
What do Ofcom do all day to prevent this??!!
Your better of doing monthly payments on services.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
'BT didn't notify anyone they were going to pull redtens plug'
I'll say again - it's not for BT to notify anyone other than RedTen.
'BT didn't notify anyone they were going to pull redtens plug'
I'll say again - it's not for BT to notify anyone other than RedTen.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"I'll say again - it's not for BT to notify anyone other than RedTen."
Oh i see, so that even further demonstrates my point of screw the public..... pockets first doesnt it.
quote"I'll say again - it's not for BT to notify anyone other than RedTen."
Oh i see, so that even further demonstrates my point of screw the public..... pockets first doesnt it.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
Are you suggesting that's what RedTen did? Alledgley.
Are you suggesting that's what RedTen did? Alledgley.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
Im alledging both thought about profit first and joe public second, Redten are just pikeys that dont pay bills, and BT are an organisation that do not communicate between departments and couldnt give a rats backside about joe public, even though its joe public that was in this case connected via their equipment.... A complete disgrace, neither company deserves any defending in this instance
Im alledging both thought about profit first and joe public second, Redten are just pikeys that dont pay bills, and BT are an organisation that do not communicate between departments and couldnt give a rats backside about joe public, even though its joe public that was in this case connected via their equipment.... A complete disgrace, neither company deserves any defending in this instance
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
If a furniture shop goes bust before it delivers my sofa do I blame the sofa manufacturer?
If a furniture shop goes bust before it delivers my sofa do I blame the sofa manufacturer?
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"If a furniture shop goes bust before it delivers my sofa do I blame the sofa manufacturer?"
1 You are not RENTING the sofa from a third part
2 You dont have to mess around calling the furniture shop and the manufacturer before you can go shop for a sofa elsewhere.
quote"If a furniture shop goes bust before it delivers my sofa do I blame the sofa manufacturer?"
1 You are not RENTING the sofa from a third part
2 You dont have to mess around calling the furniture shop and the manufacturer before you can go shop for a sofa elsewhere.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
3 If you paid for the sofa in full and its an item the shop orders from the manufacturer, then alot of the time the manufacturer rather than the shop deliver it anyway.
4 Your credit card if paying by that protects you in instances like this, it doesnt protect you if you have given a continuous authority to the company concerned
So different situation all round, if i was in the sofa shop and saw them take my order and order it from the manufacturer on their computer and the manufacturer allowed the order i think there is room to blame both parties to some degree
3 If you paid for the sofa in full and its an item the shop orders from the manufacturer, then alot of the time the manufacturer rather than the shop deliver it anyway.
4 Your credit card if paying by that protects you in instances like this, it doesnt protect you if you have given a continuous authority to the company concerned
So different situation all round, if i was in the sofa shop and saw them take my order and order it from the manufacturer on their computer and the manufacturer allowed the order i think there is room to blame both parties to some degree
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
Maybe not the best example... I still maintain if BT Wholesale told another ISP what was about to happen there would be problems. Something for Ofcom to sort out?
Maybe not the best example... I still maintain if BT Wholesale told another ISP what was about to happen there would be problems. Something for Ofcom to sort out?
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
I agree its something ofcom should atleast look into, both this incident and also put in place some measure that ensures people are not left without a connection just because a company doesnt pay bills or another company cuts them off. As it stands its people just like you and I which are the ones that end up affected for no reason or fault of our own.
I agree its something ofcom should atleast look into, both this incident and also put in place some measure that ensures people are not left without a connection just because a company doesnt pay bills or another company cuts them off. As it stands its people just like you and I which are the ones that end up affected for no reason or fault of our own.
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> > Fatcat Communications
If nothing else, I'd think someone should have a quiet word with their PR department!