Broadband News

Fibre on Demand - Openreach confirm 29th April for roll-out

The trials of Fibre on Demand are almost over, we now have a confirmed date of 29th April 2013 for when the service will become available under Early Market Deployment terms and conditions. For those businesses and Internet geeks who have been adding up the pennies from their change jars it is not the time to smash them just yet, this is just the product launching to the wholesale market, so it will take time for the retail providers to consider what they are doing.

"We can confirm that Openreach will start to make its FTTP on Demand product available on a wholesale basis to communications providers from the end of April.

As indicated previously, Openreach is slashing the monthly rental cost of its FTTP service – upon which FoD is based - from £60 per month to £38 per month, to make it more attractive to industry and their customers.

In addition to a fixed installation fee of £500, a distance based construction charge will also apply, reflecting the costs of building a fibre network direct to a customer’s premise. In line with what we’ve said previously, we estimate that more than half of premises will incur a distance based charge of between £200 and £1000. Premises that are further away from the relevant part of the fibre network will incur a higher charge due the extra engineering work involved.

It will be up to communications providers to decide whether to pass these charges on to consumers and businesses."

Openreach statement on Fibre on Demand (FoD)

The more than half of premises actually equates to 55%, and for those who are further from the fibre aggregation point Openreach is estimating that the distance related charge will be in the range £1,400 to £3,500, though an unlucky few may be quoted more. Do not forget that there is the fixed £500 connection charge and VAT to add to this.

The service initially appears to be based around a 330 Mbps downstream and 30 Mbps upstream product, which from Openreach costs £38+VAT per month. So the monthly cost is going to be substantially more than the FTTC 80/20 products, current FTTP 330/30 products tend to carry a retail price tag in the £100 per month region. One important point of note is that areas with native Openreach GEA-FTTP coverage will not have these higher connection fees, the connection charges for GEA-FTTP will continue as previously (which are the retail level runs from free to £100).

The Fibre on Demand product will once it has fully launched be available to any property that is served by an Openreach FTTC cabinet, the early market conditions refer to the fact that initially the service will be available on a limited footprint, details to be announced closer to the launch date.

BT and its fibre roll-out is a big easy target for criticism, but with Fibre on Demand it has took the commercial risk to part build a FTTP network alongside the FTTC footprint, and it will be interesting to see what demand there is once the product launches. The big gotcha now is how creative the retail sector will be, the limited footprint of the pure FTTP products has to date meant there are limited retail options.

Comments

Why do we need 330Mbps for ? We don't need it for home users. But, it ok for business. FTTC is fine for all home users.

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

That is your opinion... what if you're 3km from your cabinet? You're only seeing it from your distance and not other realistic distances. People have different needs from one another.

  • ryant704
  • over 4 years ago

I doubt many need it adslmax, but surely its important to have it available to buy? This product means we are all set-up. FTTC for the majority, FTTP if you want it (which everyone will at some point in the future will) the future is looking good :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

Still well expensive if you live too far away from FTTC cabinet. Probably cost you one off £1500 exc VAT. Plus £60 a month exc VAT for 36 months contract. I doubt no ones can afford it.

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

Price will be about £2, 500 for me, I would order it but I'm planning to move this year.

  • ryant704
  • over 4 years ago

Its premium product so it will be expensive. The installation charge you could put down as an investment on your home.

I expect prices will come down over time.

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

Don't think the premium would reduced price in the fortcoming future because that's BT Wholesale for you.

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

It might benefit to homeowner who plan live there for longest term. Not suitable for all council homes or private rent homes.

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

Well, its a BT announcement , there has to be negatives ;o)

The install was never going to be free or even cheap

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

@adslmax Plus there are those who happen to have lines that are affected by interference from 3rd parties,
So until BT openreach give control over DLM to the ISP's this would be the only viable option,
If i where to get FOD it wouldn't be for the headline speeds,but to have a connection that was free from all the problems of the D side copper pair, that wasn't designed for a 2mbps ADSL service to run on it, nevermind FTTC speeds, If i could i would have 50/50 or 40/40 FTTH speeds with Fastpath of course

  • tommy45
  • over 4 years ago

FTTC 80/20 to FTTPoD 330/30 is not much the benefit different. I was wondering what is the DLM IP profile rate for FTTPoD ?

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

As far I'm aware the DLM isn't active on FTTP, the IP profile is above 330Mbps on all services. It doesn't matter if you're on 80/20 the IP profile will still be 330Mbps+.

  • ryant704
  • over 4 years ago

DLM isn't part of FTTP, its not needed

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

*claps*

Fair does to BT, granted this product isn't for everyone, but for those of us who want it, it's available for a reasonable investment. What more could we ask for... REALISTICALLY?

In the past this level of service hasn't been an option for even the middle classes.

A FTTP service is worth £2000 to ALOT of people, I WFH as an IT Contractor, I'll pay it.

  • mabibby
  • over 4 years ago

Have an enquiry about other speed options

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

BT could have other speed option eg: FTTPoD 110/30, 220/30 and 330/30 ?

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

They will in the future, they're 40/2, 40/10, 80/20, 110/20, 160/20, 220/30 and 330/30. Though some of these speeds are being removed later on in the year If I remember...

  • ryant704
  • over 4 years ago

more likely FTTC - 40/10 become 80/20 while 80/20 become 120/20 (competition with Virgin Media 120/12)

  • adslmax
  • over 4 years ago

They aren't changing the options, they're removing a few of them as there are too many of them.

  • ryant704
  • over 4 years ago

Any idea if this is suitable for eo lines? E.g. An eo line that is 25m from a cabinet.

  • callmeleroy
  • over 4 years ago

@adslmax I pay the same as everyone else but as I am 1.2 miles from the cabinet I only get 18 down and 1 up. I am prepared to pay to a point as I plan to stay in this house for at least another 5 years so I see that I would be future proofing my situation. Also I would be prepared to sign up for x amount of years if my ISP is willing to absorb some of the costs. I will wait and see.

  • NuttyMucker
  • over 4 years ago

adslmax: FTTC is fine for places where there are cabinets. Where I live there are unfortunately no cabinets. I am hoping that the fibre on demand offer will actually be extended to us, but so far I can not see any evidence that it will...

  • vicdupreez
  • over 4 years ago

@callmeleroy not for eo lines at this stage

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

vic you will be connected to a cabinet somewhere along the line or you are EO -- you just need to be able to find it -- i'd start with the wholesale checker (as that will give the cab you are connected to)

  • fastman
  • over 4 years ago

It certainly wont be Fibre on Demand for those of us still on copper.

  • chilting
  • over 4 years ago

Not sure what you mean chilting, I'm still on copper (last 500m or so) and I will be able to buy if should I wish.

As I don't use my 60Mbps anywhere near its potential I won't be buying it, not for years I wouldn't expect

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

I'll definitely be investing in this when it's available, hopefully providers don't take another 3 months to offer it to customers

  • tuff
  • over 4 years ago

This is just rubbing salt into the wounds for those of us in FTTP scheduled areas who can't get FTTC and have been told FTTP won't now be coming until the end of the year at the earliest.

  • chrigurndevon
  • over 4 years ago

GMAN99 Sorry to be ambiguous. Our West Chiltington exchange is not even in BT's roll out plans yet and West Sussex look like they are going to be the last council to get their BDUK project up and running.
Therefore, anything that talks about high speed broadband on demand does leave a sour taste in the mouth.

  • chilting
  • over 4 years ago

'BT and its fibre roll-out is a big easy target for criticism, but with Fibre on Demand it has took the commercial risk to part build a FTTP network alongside the FTTC footprint'

Taken, and hardly. FTTPoD shifts some costs onto the consumer of the service. It's an extremely clever exercise in reducing commercial risk surely?

TBB reads more like TBT sometimes.

  • Dixinormous
  • over 4 years ago

'the early market conditions refer to the fact that initially the service will be available on a limited footprint'

Early Market Deployment T+Cs don't detail a limited footprint. I'm sure one of the site's contacts at BT can furnish a copy.

Alternatively just make things up and write them.

  • Dixinormous
  • over 4 years ago

Such a shame that this doesn't address EO lines which can sometimes be next door to a FTTC-enabled house

  • callmeleroy
  • over 4 years ago

WHy can't they just sort out FTTC first? My exhcnage is being done but my cab is not yet other exchanges around are getting it done via the government funding which I am told my cab wont get

  • pcoventry76
  • over 4 years ago

chilting -=- West chiltinging would onlyt be coverd under a BDUK roll out its a market 1 with just over 1900 premises - highly unlikley to be a commerccial exchange suggest you lobby Wedt Sussex to ensure you are covered in their "Intervention Area"

  • fastman
  • over 4 years ago

PC coventry once an exchnage is enabled as part of commercial -- each cab in that exchnage is subject to strit commercial criteria which is pass or fail - it is passes it will be enabled - it if fails it will not be enabled (This is the same in each NGA enabled exchanage and not just yours )

There are then 2 options availabel to you if the exchnage is already enabled 1 is to funded by community using private monies eg islip / Binfield Heath) or it coudl be funded under the local County bid (BDUK) depending on the local authoritiees broadband priorities

  • fastman
  • over 4 years ago

pcoventry76 , there's not much to sort out for FTTPoD, just a trial really which is almost complete, the fibre is already in place, it just needs the last XXXm to be installed

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

It's not true that you need to be connected to an existing FTTc-enabled cabinet, or even have one nearby you. You need to have a a fibre aggregation point within reach of you. This is true both from a technical standpoint, and the OpenReach engineers who I spoke to on the street about this the other day (they were briefed a few weeks ago).

  • bbluefoot
  • over 4 years ago

So if you are EO (which I am), you just have to cross your fingers that there is a fibre aggregation point near you.

  • bbluefoot
  • over 4 years ago

While it may be possible if nearthe AP until BT say officially, it is unwise for us to suggest EO can use it. We do ask these things

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

bbluefoot

"Technically" you are right, but whether Openreach will let you order it if you cannot order FTTC already is another matter and that is how I understand it is at the moment reading the blurb.

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

Blue i am afrain the engineer that advised you is correct in part FOD can only be odered from an NGA enabled Exchange and where the Cab the subrcriber is connected to is also NGA enabled - (the aggregation node is correct but he has missed the element being commected to an enabled cab for fTTC

  • fastman
  • over 4 years ago

I live in central London, EC1V postcode, surrounded by cabinets (3 within 100 meters) but with an EO line.

Why would FoD require a line connected to an FTTC cabinet when the FoD new fibre would come directly from the NGA aggregation node and go nowhere the FTTC cabinet?

The only reason I can think of is if the ducting for the EO lines is completely separate for the ducting network for the cabinets and therefore there are no available crossover points between ducting networks.

  • dandodex
  • over 4 years ago

The situation for EO may change in time. Openreach will want to get the FoD up and running en masse and then in time deal with the more custom scenarios I suspect

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

for the record, the engineers I spoke to said that Openreach will do FoD for anyone within reach of the node with suitable ducting to their premises. that may be incorrect or the latter may be the problem, but that's what I was told. of course, I'll believe it when I see (can order) it.

  • bbluefoot
  • over 4 years ago

Able to physically do it is very different to management allowing it. A lot depends on this will affect the network in years when fttp is rolled out fully

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

£100 / month fair enough for business users, way too expensive for the average joe especially when having to fork out for install.

  • Housey1
  • over 4 years ago

I believe the need for FTTC is to simplify the planning process on OR's part. OR have a database with all FTTC capable lines which they know are capable of FoD. All other lines just show as ADSL; their computer system won't know how far every home is from an NGA node. Sure, they could check but that would take time and money. From their perspective, it's much easier just to offer it to existing FTTC premises. I know it must be frustrating but it makes business sense.

  • Crusiux
  • over 4 years ago

EO lines that are in the bduk coverage areas could be solved via this but I'm not sure the kind of per household budgets these bduk projects are looking at.

  • callmeleroy
  • over 4 years ago

All the NGA nodes are new and will be properly mapped. BT also knows the exact address and postcode for each telephone line whether EO or not (that's where they send their bills!). The check for distance between the two locations is trivial.

  • dandodex
  • over 4 years ago

Also, check the comments here, it seems the charge per distance is based on straight line distance, which simplifies calculations even more:
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/03/bt-confirm-final-uk-isp-prices-and-launch-of-330mbps-fttp-on-demand.html

If there is any problem providing FoD to EO lines it will be a physical problem if there are no crossover points in the ducting.

  • dandodex
  • over 4 years ago

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=0WyIM7tTGGgucFf0dXUIWK4XSAplAmgrRZNg5Pk%2B5%2F%2BkRgB7BL4KNYn%2FlKx2YB4Qe6YShZ82RgLOGLsH2e9%2Bmw%3D%3D

the above link shows what openreach will charge and distance and bands from A to K

  • johnct
  • over 4 years ago

@dandodex I do not doubt OR's mapping of NGA nodes, certainly, they would always log their positions. The NGA node is usually near the cabinet and OR's system presumably knows the distance from cab to FTTC properties which wholesale uses to estimate speed. Its a simple look up task; not so with non FTTC lines as an extra step of validation is needed. I imagine OR are also imposing it to prevent people in areas without an NGA activated exchange flooding them with requests. It will be interesting to see how OR manages such large volumes of requests.

  • Crusiux
  • over 4 years ago

Assuming there will be a large volume of requests :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

While a simple radial distance may be involved, there are stages to the order and the possibility of them coming back to you to say it will cost more and asking if you still want to proceed or not.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

@GMAN99 They'll get loads from people who just want to see how much it will cost.

  • Crusiux
  • over 4 years ago

Yeah I guess

Yes you are right andrew, they could quote the radial distance and then after a proper survey could find ducts were blocked (insert anything else) would that incur an ECC? At what stage would OR find that out, after they have committed? Can the customer pull out at no cost after being notified of an ECC.

It will be interesting to see how it works

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

My bet is they'll ignore requests from anyone except ISPs.

  • themanstan
  • over 4 years ago

Everyone would have to go via an ISP anyway wouldn't it?

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

The survey fee will put off the curiou

  • ribble
  • over 4 years ago

As BT have just put me onto a retention deal of £15 per month for unlimited Infinity 2 as I expressed an interest in moving to Plusnet I doubt I shall be moving onto FTTPoD anytime soon.

  • undecidedadrian
  • over 4 years ago

In response:

Like I say, I was told that Openreach will allow you to order it. Of course the engineers I spoke to may have been misinformed, a definitive decision may not have been taken or the parameters they were told were since changed. Hopefully not though; as a poster pointed out above, it would be extremely simple for them to identify the closest node.

----

Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) 2 days ago
Able to physically do it is very different to management allowing it. A lot depends on this will affect the network in years when fttp is rolled out fully

  • bbluefoot
  • over 4 years ago

A retention deal to stop you moving to one of their wholly owned subsidiaries? :D

  • bbluefoot
  • over 4 years ago

I'm disappointed by the uploads to be honest. A symmetric service would be far more appealing to me. As it stands there's not enough benefit over an 80/20 FTTC service.

  • neils58
  • over 4 years ago

I'm 166M line-of-sight from my aggregation node. (Found Openreach working on it a few months back.) 10M more to the cab. But the cables are old and snake around such that I only get an unreliable 25M on FTTC. (and 5M on ADSL2+). I am very tempted to save up for this..

  • irrelevant
  • over 4 years ago

this trend is worrying and ofcom need to step in I feel. adsl 1 month contract, fttc 12 months, and fttpod 36 months at wholesale level, anti competitive big time.

  • chrysalis
  • over 4 years ago

But FTTPoD is a much bigger commitment, ADSL/FTTC involves little in the way of physical work. I can see why they would want a longer contract with FTTP

This is what has put BT off delivering FTTP for so long, fears of not getting an ROI, it was only 4-5yrs ago BT and Ofcom came to an agreement that they decided it was worthwhile deploying

That said... 36months is a long time!

  • GMAN99
  • over 4 years ago

So how does one go about enquiring the costs and availability of this service? There is FTTC where I live, and I'm about a mile or less from the exchange.

  • keith969
  • over 4 years ago

Keith - you need to wait until the retail providers have decided whether they will offer the product, and then find the one who suits you most.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 4 years ago

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