Broadband News

Gainshare to push superfast broadband further in Surrey

After its Open Market Review that identified some 15,000 premises not able to get superfast broadband in the county of Surrey the council has finally announced what will happen with the gainshare re-investment, and this is that some 6,000 premises that are currently not able to get superfast broadband (faster than 24 Mbps) will see work to improve their service options available.

Our tracking of the coverage in Surrey has the county with 96.54% coverage at the faster than 24 Mbps level, reducing to 96.30% if you use a 30 Mbps qualifier. There is actually 98.8% who are passed by a VDSL2/cable/FTTP service, but the distance drop off for VDSL2 results in the drops to 96.54%.

So what difference will 6,000 premises make to the total? We suspect it will bring superfast coverage up to around 97.5% and fingers crossed there will be more gainshare in the future to boost coverage even more.

There is no detail on what technologies will be used, but the extension work is with BT and given the 3.81% of FTTP already deployed and a greater emphasis on pure fibre within Openreach these days fingers cross a lot of the 6,000 will be fibre to the premises.

We have not gone through the released postcode list with a fine tooth comb yet, but given the data we have on coverage we not finding it difficult to identity postcodes like KT18 6DH which are in the 9,000 premises missing out.

The work on the 6,000 is set to start in January 2018 with a second phase in the first three months of 2019 and the council has emphasised that being on its list carries no guarantees as the planning stages may mean that the plans change.

Once our work to hoover up all the new build premises from 2016 has completed we will look at integrating the Surrey postcode list into our own checker.

Comments

Only a mile from Farnham, Surrey town centre with my postcode not mentioned. Am I stuck with my current service for ever. Certainly looks that way.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=148846135090928347751

  • trolleybus
  • 4 months ago

More rural FTTP is cool. Good progress but it is odd that some at the edge of network can get more than those in towns.
The interaction between the returning funds and the proposed BUSO is interesting.
All those LA funds need to be spent on the fibre footprint to reduce the reliance on the proposed BUSO condition.
How long will it take BT to spend £325m on rural FTTP?

  • ValueforMoney
  • 4 months ago

If USO is just a 10 Mbps one with no bump on upload, then very possibly.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

Hi VFM.
I think you will find that Openreach will start to bypass the FTTC and provide to the Last Mile 15 Meg there has been work changing out poles and extra footway boxes beening provided in the last 18 months after the completion of the Surrey BD/UK on Elgin. There are even FTTC old and New wailing to be open with fibre sitting at the Post Codes could this be for G/Fast or direct fibre. I still think the target for Surrey is 99.7% at 15 meg.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

Explain how fibre sitting at post offices is part of the Openreach roll-out, split from GPO is very old and post office has nothing to do with the roll-outs.

Confusing, usual maintenance, finishing off previous contract and other guess work is not helping people.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

@andrew

Blackmamba wrote Post Codes, not Post Offices.

  • TheEulerID
  • 4 months ago

Hi Andrew.
I try not to put any information on hear which I cannot prove because you did put me on the naughty step when I was trying to help you and others also I do not disclose any conferdencial information that I may have.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

Sorry about misreading the post codes as post offices.

Its an interesting assertion still to suggest fibre has been rolled out to postcodes, but not available. Unless referring to premises in postcodes where the original phase 1 roll-out is still underway, and there are some where work is still needed, these are flagged as FTTP on the way in the Openreach checker.

Doubt its G.fast as this is planned as cabinet based and using existing fibre.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers
The post codes where fibre is available are where other customers have taken and paid for ( Fibre on Demand) so these locations are in the future will be available to fibre or G / Fast on this post code. As for G/ Fast at the FTTC location to cover Post Codes in a radius of 200-300 m I would think will be classed as Just in Time or G/ Fast on demand. I would think to fit a g/ fast unit would be only a days work. ( 2 Man party ).

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

How many fibre on demand customers do you know of then in Surrey?

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

@BM - you are assuming a PCP does need a major rewire to provide space for the Gfast connections and possibly a reshell.

As usual your posts are confusing, I'm not convinced you understand the detail.

  • Somerset
  • 4 months ago

A customer taking FoD does not make it available to others in the postcode. I'm not sure of the impact on the checkers but as far as I'm aware it has no impact on the postcode checker, just per premises.

G.fast is irrelevant to FoD, they are nothing to do with each other.

There is no G.fast on demand. Customers cannot order G.fast until it's made available, there's no just in time solution right now.

  • CarlThomas
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers
The post codes where fibre is available are where other customers have taken and paid for ( Fibre on Demand) so these locations are in the future will be available to fibre or G / Fast on this post code. As for G/ Fast at the FTTC location to cover Post Codes in a radius of 200-300 m I would think will be classed as Just in Time or G/ Fast on demand. I would think to fit a g/ fast unit would be only a days work. ( 2 Man party ).

this is unhelpful , incoreentc and completely misleading and bears no rssemblence to any thing remotely factual

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

there is not such thing as As for G/ Fast at the FTTC location to cover Post Codes in a radius of 200-300 m I would think will be classed as Just in Time or G/ Fast on demand - Gfats is in trial in a number of areas so again incorrect , misinformed and misadvised or made up -- not sure which

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

I think I see what BM is saying. Where FoD has been taken there's fibre relatively close to other premises in an area. That's true, the physical infrastructure is there.

The confusing part was referring to postcodes. FoD doesn't make much difference. Rare, only impacts a really small area, those who may be served by the same fibre DP really.

  • CarlThomas
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers.
The most important information is on the (Post Code GPS position) which you can monitor on TBB maps this information is updated daily. I do know where customers have ordered fibre on demand but I class that as confidential but I can say there are more than one in Surrey you can pick them out ion Elgin by the Job number.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

Since when were the tbb maps updated daily?

I know of at least one FoD in Cardiff and have seen 4 or 5 more across UK, but that does not mean its a popular option, which the lay person reading your posts could come away with the idea of.

Your corner of Surrey is an unusual one in terms of the value of properties due to being stock broker belt.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

Hi Andrews Staff.
Let's change it from daily to regerated date which may be 1 or 2,3 days but the information is there and customers and ISP, have only to look on your Website.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

There is no linkage between FOd and anything else - DOD is a single user Fibre provision covering a few odd premises and no more

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

the key word in G.fast is **planned**.... :/

if anyone has ACTUAL premises with G.fast, do speak up!
I do NOT mean 'test' I mean 'real world' paid for and connected to a private computer!!! :)

  • comnut
  • 4 months ago

I think someone needs to goto specsavers/ clean their glasses before they set trigger happy fingers to kbd.... :) :)

  • comnut
  • 4 months ago

DO note that post codes are NOT that accurate, they can span a mile or more, if the street is longer!!
That is why a house number is asked for.

  • comnut
  • 4 months ago

Gfast is s trial in a number of specific exchanges only at present which have been clearly communicated -- that is in trial status

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

@comnut - exactly right about postcodes. Remember that they were designed to assist the PO in sorting mail, so were originally bullt around posties' "walks".
Sure, they are a very convenient way of grouping properties geographically, and are something we all know about our address. But they're far from perfect when used for purposes other than their original design.

  • mpellatt
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers.
Broadband uses the post code (GPS Position ) to deliver packets this position is determined by Lat/Long and will be in the posties walk. You can see the position of the post code by looking at TBB maps. The addresses Homes fan out from this location N,S,E,W. On TBB Web/Site you can see the service that are available on the Post Code which they update when they receive the data.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

@BM - 'Broadband uses the post code (GPS Position ) to deliver packets'

This is completely inaccurate, made up, rubbish.

  • Somerset
  • 4 months ago

Hi Somerset.
It may be that you have not heard of packet switching..

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

@BM - I have, please tell us more about how that is related to an IP network.

  • Somerset
  • 4 months ago

The spread of a postcode is one reason why our estimates can be at the low end and thus are usually below what people get, i.e. well aware of postcode limitations.

As for using postcodes to deliver packets, what a load of

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

last time I heard that was working with frame relay and point to point ccts its is absolutely nothing to do with VDSL and FTTP sounds like someone using their ex knowledge of a business they worked for X years ago is try trying to determine what its doing today by how they did the above yesterday

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

Does this mean when I see packet loss on my connection I need to go ask the neighbours if they have them?

  • CarlThomas
  • 4 months ago

Hi Carl.
You my jest but that is the problem when you have a Post Code on two Cabs and a speed test is done and loged the speed can crash from 14 meg to 2 meg..

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

Okay. I may be reading this wrong but you seem to be suggesting that use of Think Broadband's speed tester, specifically logging results with postcodes, influences how traffic is routed.

Are you saying that this is the case?

  • CarlThomas
  • 4 months ago

Someone needs to closely check the post codes published by SCC. Many already have >24 Mbps, including many in an area where the local residents paid Openreach for two new cabinets! What a shambles! Most of the above natterings are probably irrelevant.

  • cooperfarncombe
  • 4 months ago

OMG.....

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_mapping

is much better.

  • comnut
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers.
Me say nothing as i do not want to be put on the naughty step.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

@cooperfarncombe Plan was to compare them in the near future, and see how they shape up, so if you've found some already email them and will look.

One issue with the OMR is they are slow and commercial or private funding can change in the time scales the OMR is spread over.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

Bit late, BM. When I get home and am done with work I will post up a couple of bits for your attention.

@fastman ATM used PVCs, VP/VC pairs for cell switched addressing. Zero mapping to postcodes though might be some Openreach systems that held such data.

  • CarlThomas
  • 4 months ago

copper they actually co funded with Openreach to gap the element outside the commercial viability of the enablement of those structures

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

@fastman - if you say so, but does not change the fact that Superfast Surrey will have to reissue a revised list of postcodes to remove those in error. Any work now to analyse the current list seems a bit pointless. By the way please do not call me "Copper", especially on here!

  • cooperfarncombe
  • 4 months ago

cooper sorry finger trouble -- the OMR should have included those as being covered you would have expected

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers.
Just check new updated TBB results for Surrey on the % at 15 Meg I think it is looking good and with £3.8 M to spend should close the targeted gap 99.7 % with ease.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

I'm in a fibre-free area in a major Surrey town with no promise from Openreach of my getting FFTC in the foreseeable future. Openreach says it's not possible yet nearby areas have fibre. Frankly I don'e believe the >95% coverage.

  • RAConnell
  • 4 months ago

Sam knows?

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_mapping

Not so. I cannot get FTTC. So Sam does not always know correctly.

  • RAConnell
  • 4 months ago

Hi Raconnell
Check you post code on TBB as you are in the centre of the Town or give the Telephone Exchange you are on you may have been targeted for a different system.
Openreach only works in the present time so tomorrow it may be available. TBB is showing 96% at 24 meg today across Surrey.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

The 3.6% at under 24 Mbps does equate to some 18,000 premises, so people popping up to say they don't believe the figures is no surprise.

If https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/postcode-search does categorise a postcode as wrong for majority of premises then always happy to correct.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

My Cranleigh exchange has recently been enabled for FTTP on Demand (FoD). I have long been looking for evidence of FoD in Surrey, but have never heard of a quote, let alone installation. Part of the problem is people, including BT, confusing on demand quotes for private fibre (i.e. a high speed leased line) with “fibre/FTTP on demand”. We’ve had a few “private fibres” installed around here since the FTTC rollout, but these don’t help with GEA FTTP. OTOH I understand FoD may become part of the GEA FTTP network once the 3 year contract expires. Any advice on getting a quote for FoD in Surrey?

  • davidnye
  • 4 months ago

I spoke to SCC today. They are checking all reported errors, but the postcodes referred to above have mostly been found to be correct. There are borderline cases. A postcode only needed one premise below 15 Mbps to qualify as Target White. Openreach then decided where and how the funds would get the maximum number over 24 Mbps. One postcode I reported (RH12 3AT) was incorrectly designated as “White”, but this error was not spotted by the public review, and cannot now be corrected (probably would not have made any difference anyway). Changes are more likely later on after detailed surveys.

  • davidnye
  • 4 months ago

FOd wrong answer to the wrong question especially in your area davidnye

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

@davidnye
Get in touch with fluidone.com, they will quote you for FTTP On Demand. Expect to pay >£300 per month on a min 3 year contract and £1000s in setup (installation) costs.

  • baby_frogmella
  • 4 months ago

yes as I said wrong answer to the wrong question =-- don't try and do something as an indivual will cost you much more and wont really benefit anyone else

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

Hi Broadband Watchers.
If only the customers of Surrey had surported the SCC a bit more and took up the services that were provided by Openreach and waited for the claw back money to be used they would not have paid extra on the private Cabs. There are more Cabs with FTTC on demand open so it is in the hands of the customer to apply and get a quote from their ( chosen ISP).

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

What is FTTC on demand? As opposed to FTTC?

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

blackmanba Fibre on demand is fibre on demand -- the cab is irrelevant as it does not use the fibre to to cab it goes back to the ag node -- so more dis/misinformation again- cost for FOD are not cheap and they only really help the one person and only very few service providers are consuming it -- FOD has nothing to do with gainshare

  • fastman
  • 4 months ago

One has to be very wary of Postcodes.

My PCP is across the road, in another Postcode.

But the FTTC is on the near-side of the road, in my house Postcode.

But if you were coming to my house, whether on foot, by car etc, I would advise you to use the PCP Postcode, as it will bring you almost directly to my house, rather than the allocated Postcode.

  • alexdow
  • 4 months ago

If we had the resources and data sources of the regulator Ofcom then we would work to the full address of every premise and structure, but even that does not take into account variations that can also crop up, i.e. at the end of the day the most accurate is what are people actually experiencing.

Hence we do our best at tracking to the postcode level, but combine this with the massed observations on user speeds shown on https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • 4 months ago

Hi Alex.
The home address name number must be recorded correct to the Post Code GPS position and should correspond to the postal run from the FTTC if not you will have problems.

  • Blackmamba
  • 4 months ago

'Post code GPS position' is a location somewhere in the middleish of the area covered by a postcode. TOTALLY unrelated to provision of broadband or any other utility which uses the specific actual location of the property.

'Postal run' - please explain what this means.

  • Somerset
  • 4 months ago

Hi Somerset.
Postal Run is the sequence the letters are sorted to tie in with the postal codes E.G. Gu102aa -Gu102ab or Gu102my-Gu102mz so the postie can deliver in a straight run he is timed on the distances.

  • Blackmamba
  • 3 months ago

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