Broadband News

2.3 million now signed up to BT Consumer Infinity fibre based service

BT Group has published it latest set of quarterly figures and they indicate that BT Consumer division (BT Retail) is still winning the majority of the FTTC business within the UK. The good news is that the fibre based broadband network from Openreach is now available to some 20 million homes and growing at a rate of around 70,000 extra premises per week as new cabinets go live.

"We have passed more than 20m premises with our fibre broadband rollout. We achieved 341,000 net fibre connections, an increase of 29%. That brings the number of homes and businesses connected to more than 3m, 15% of those passed. Overall DSL and fibre broadband market net additions were 163,000, 14% down on last year.

...

Capital expenditure decreased 8%. While our commercial fibre build is nearing completion, we have increased the overall intensity of our fibre rollout through the BDUK programme. We received grant funding of £73m (Q1 2013/14: £12m) relating to the BDUK programme with the increase from last year broadly offsetting the overall increase in our fibre capital expenditure. Operating cash flow increased 11%."

Extract from Openreach section of results for 1st quarter to 30th June 2014

Openreach with 3 million customers via various retail providers signed up on its FTTC and FTTP networks is showing a reasonable level of take-up at 15% and as demand for faster broadband increases driven largely by video-on-demand services the take-up level is likely to increase. For the BDUK projects once 20% is hit within an intervention area clawback mechanisms kick-in so that the County Council partner gets some of their investment back and can either return this to their coffers, or re-invest in pushing fibre based services deeper into rural areas.

The BT Consumer division is out pacing the growth of the other large broadband providers, adding 104,000 new broadband customers in the last quarter and now has over 7.4 million customers on a broadband service. The idea that all fibre based broadband is called Infinity is something that other providers are fighting but with 226,000 out of the 341,000 fibre connections in the last quarter it looks like an up hill struggle to convince the public that fibre based connections are available from a wide number of broadband providers at the retail level.

Hopefully as the commercial roll-out phase for fibre based broadband slows down, those areas where they can see FTTP infrastructure partially built will see the final bits of work completed over the next few months and the online checkers will finally allow them to place an order for a 40 Mbps, 80 Mbps or faster service. Some 150,000 premises can order FTTP on the Openreach network at this time, but more should have it available, the problem is one of limited resources and with pressure to hit deadlines for the BDUK projects there is a risk that people may have to wait even longer.

Comments

And Primus Saver says there are low demand for fibre broadband...

  • hypertony
  • over 2 years ago

i assume primus saver is basic copper so think that woudl be FTTC or fibre service - deamnd for fibre is growing all the time as applications increase and expectation get higher

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

The 20% clawback rate should kick in before 8 weeks on a Cab if the Coouncil has done the advertising correct and has told customers the Cab is open to all ISP,s. In the BT commercial section the advertising is very poor we in Surrey are waiting for BT Infinity to be connect after six months on a line because all the data is incorrect sill waiting a reply from Openreach.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

"And Primus Saver says there are low demand for fibre broadband..."

What do you call 15% then? It's not what I'd call high demand that's for sure.

  • AndrueC
  • over 2 years ago

Doesnt 15% sound small when said without context?

Yet VM has a market share of around 20% of all broadband lines (4.3m out of 22m), and it has taken them 15 years to get to that total, and isn't growing.

At the current rate of subscriber growth (340k per quarter) the Openreach total will overtake that in the next 12 months.

IIRC, point topic reckoned that growth will continue for the next 3 years before slowing down.

  • WWWombat
  • over 2 years ago

Another way to look at it is that around 65% of premises currently get broadband using DSL over the phone line (the rest is either VM cable or has no broadband). So the FTTC/FTTP rollout has captured almost a quarter of its obvious target market.

Judging by the rollout graph in the BT quarterly results, the average FTTC cabinet has been stood for 2 years (oldest 4 years, newest less than 1 month presumably) .

Convincing a quarter to convert in, on average, 2 years is not a bad feat. And "everyone" says the rural takeup will be higher!

  • WWWombat
  • over 2 years ago

blackmanba whats your cab that been waiting 6 months ? pm me

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

"Doesnt 15% sound small when said without context?"

It still seems small when put in context. VM's market share is pitiful. In comparison with VM BT looks like doing better..but still not what I'd call high demand.

  • AndrueC
  • over 2 years ago

Hi Broadband Watcher
The Area is Hindhead Cab 13 my neighbour has had problems trying to be transfered from Plusnet to BT Infinity 2 and I got involved when her order was cancelled for the sixth time. I found out the records were incorrect on house name plus post code and Cab availability. I am waiting reply from Openreach via E/mail and BT sales . The Cab was open December 2013 confermed from Openreach via last E/ mail.
Regards. Phil. Ex BT Hindhead. Mtce

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

People are screaming out for fibre broadband - if only they could get it?!

  • George99
  • over 2 years ago

The problem here is that people think Infinity is fibre and you can only get Fibre from BT and IMO, I think that is the way BT played it. Even I was confused at first when FTTC first started in this country.
I certainly would not touch Bloated toad again, with their traffic management and lies.

  • zyborg47
  • over 2 years ago

I want it, but like most of the town can't get it as we are plugged directly into the exchange :-(

  • dgmckenzie
  • over 2 years ago

@blackmamba
If you are ex-BT, I'd have thought you would be aware that the best way to get such inconsistencies fixed is to email the CEO of the group. His team of troubleshooters can usually bang the right heads together that get results much faster than via the "non-customer-facing" Openreach or the Indian call centre of BT Retail.

  • WWWombat
  • over 2 years ago

@AndrueC
Yet BT were deploying with a 20% target and a decade+ period for returns. I guess we can only judge "high" or "low" demand relative to such expectations.

  • WWWombat
  • over 2 years ago

Broadband Watchers.
If all the the customers who want SFB or better service the best option is to record your speed on the post code on Thinkbroadband map this will improve the results. It will only require a few on each Cab per week this will also improve the take up rate.
Hi Wombat. We have been to the CEO Openreach on Cab 6 (BT Com Section) in Hindhead via MP but Openreach will not change their dates Dec 2014.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

I doubt that going to CEO of Openreach, CEO of BT group or an MP will result in a cab being pushed through the programme any quicker. Anyone, & perhaps everyone, has exactly that claim over their own cab.

But emails to the CEO of BT Group are known to be able to sort out issues in the hidden depths of BT that ordinary customer support scripts cannot cope with (but ironically, I find Plusnet can cope with!) Your cab 13 issue is just such a case.

  • WWWombat
  • over 2 years ago

The way I see it if they finished off what they started a few years back on 14 or so FTTP installs for 14 phone cabinets they would probably have more sign up.

  • PaulKirby
  • over 2 years ago

blackmams so how far are you from that cab is over say 500 -600 metrres then >40 m/bps product from a cp wont be any good and will not be able to be sold. - as an aside if a cab loses its slot due to troubles with highways, land issues or outher such things -- its could lose its slot (assuming it remains in the programmes the cab programme from approval to deployment is circa 9 monthe to a year so from when that is actually approved to eit being orderable by a subscribert

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

blackmamba i assue there was some issue around 6 then

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

blackmanba if you are over a 1km (depending on local Conditions) you many not get any ulift at all - FYI not sure what issue is

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

The takeup was 9% not too long ago ISTR. And to be honest,by now,we are halfway through BDUK.If we assume that initially it was indeed the easier targets that were done first commercially,before BDUK,the ones that cost less therefore more likely to have already got good service & is why there was low take up to start with via the commercial rollout,we might already be seeing the more difficult & neglected areas starting to come through which,together with increased publicity, might be the reason for the 15% figure now.

  • csimon
  • over 2 years ago

Well we are still waiting for our FTTP since 2011 and we are "Part of BT's 66% Commercial Plan" we have even got the fibre manifold and enclosure on the poll, so maybe they are just delayed in their Commercial rollout plan.

  • PaulKirby
  • over 2 years ago

What a crock, just found out some more information about FTTP, seems that BT has dropped the 25% FTTP rollout, halfway down the post.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/388594/bt-hits-66-of-uk-in-fibre-rollout

So what happens to the people that have the fibre manifold and enclosure on the pole ?

  • PaulKirby
  • over 2 years ago

Hi Flash. I think you are correct on Cab 6 (BT Comm section) at Hindhead we lost our slot due to planning over the Cab being placed on Surrey County Council ground this problem was two years ago. Openreach fibre boys have provided the cable to the old Cab.
Cab 13 ( BT comm section ) I think it is down to Data incorrect on Openreach computer and they are unable to change it in the Programe.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

Image what the sign up would be like if the upgraded some of the uneconomical cabs that most of us on the forums seem to be connected to!

  • Kebabselector
  • over 2 years ago

@Kebabselector: I can imagine what their accountants and shareholders might say.

'Uneconomic' usually means 'we would lose money' although it can just means 'we wouldn't make useful amounts of money'.

If what you suggest is correct then BT are sensible to avoid enabling such cabinets. It would hurt them to take on large numbers of uneconomic customers.

  • AndrueC
  • over 2 years ago

As the roll-out progresses profits will be increasing and as that happens BT will become more willing and able to take on less profitable and even loss-making cabinets. But they have to keep a balance.

There's nothing attractive to BT about large numbers of subscribers unless they are economic (ie; profitable) subscribers.

  • AndrueC
  • over 2 years ago

Broadband Watchers
Work started on the last Cab 7 ( 100 customers) in Hindhead yesterday power feed in road. Fibre is at the location term in Haslemere could be open for service in 10 working days.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

If a provider enabled the cabinets people were moaning about, those on the cabinets not enabled would be moaning too.

Until someone commits to over 100% coverage of superfast broadband there will be have have-nots, and even then there will be those who complain that is not enough.

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 2 years ago

there is also the ability (asuming you exchnage is enabled) for a commuity / Business Park to community / Prviate fund your cabinet if it not covered by commercial or BDUK programmes (see openreach FAQ's Rura Broadband)

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

Hi Flash. All Hindhead Cabs (total 14) are Fibred back to Haslemere Exchange GSC so all ports are Haslemere (numbers) Market 3.from Market 2.
Hindhead with 3k lines will have only a few not be able to get 15 meg/down.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

anything over aounr 1.2 - 14.km will get little or no uplift from the FTTC cab

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

sorry that shoudl be 1.2 - 1.4 -- any thing over aorund 1.6k as a norm the adsl speed will be better so the FTTc will ever be offered on the checker

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

Http://maps.thinkbroadband.com has a new layer that will help with the will a postcode benefit debate

  • andrew
  • thinkbroadband staff
  • over 2 years ago

fastman - here on SDWSTCH we are finding (on a small sample) that, with the crummy lines we have, 1000m seems to be the point at which it drops to 4-5Mbps. I hear 2Mbps is now the 'accepted minimum' for VDSL speeds - bit of a joke really to ask folk to shell out about £10 a mounth more so they can come off the BDUK <2Mbps list..............

  • mikejp
  • over 2 years ago

fastman
1200m can still be superfast speeds. It depends on quality & diameter of copper too.

Plusnet found the drop-off point tended to be 2km, while they had one sub at 4.2km who was faster than their ADSL speed. He must have had decent thick copper.

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=94369.0

  • WWWombat
  • over 2 years ago

Mike JP that consistent may have been a bit more / Bit less

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

wwwwombat depending on what property it was and where it was i may have had a direct route to the DP -- there are instance os when telecomms / power was first installed to premises that were important in the life of the exchange that some had direct routes laid to them and therefore they will get a much better speed over a far greater distance

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

The caution is clear - the BT wholesale 'checker' appears to take no or little acoount of the line quality. Our 1000m plus connections were all given much higher expectations on the checker.

BEWARE before you sign up. There is no comeback.

  • mikejp
  • over 2 years ago

Imagine the excitement of finally getting fibre when you have been used to speeds of 1.25 Mbps and finding that your speed has gone up to the dizzy heights of 4.5 Mbps. Then you are told that that's fine, you have more than 2 Mbps, stop winging, we might even do something about it in two years time.

  • chilting
  • over 2 years ago

mike JP that why you get a clean and ompacted speed -- speed is also measured to the DP so if you have along drop from the DP to the premise that may impact as well

  • fastman
  • over 2 years ago

Broadband Watchers
When transfering to FTTC (buyer beware) first check the distance from your new Cab (FTTC) to your home because the A and B banding could be incorrect thus giving your ISP false selling data. This kicks in at aprox 1500 mtrs also remember that different ISP give different service (speed).

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

@Blackmamba
In my case at 1.8km from the cabinet the BT Wholesale data is wildly inaccurate. Band A gives 8.3 - 13.3 Mbps and band B 5.2 - 10.5 Mbps. My actual speed varies between 3.75 Mbps and 5 Mbps with brief periods when it increases to 7 Mbps. After very extensive checking BT have found no faults on the line. This experience has been repeated by others on my rural exchange. The chances of finding a Band A long line would appear to be very remote! FTTC at 2 Mbps is being offered to my neighbor's.

  • chilting
  • over 2 years ago

Hi Chil.
We have the same problem at 1.8 km with ZEN and they are on band B this line is at Churt on the Thinkbroadband Map see results. We are working to get it above 15 meg Surrey,s % target at that range. 100 Mtres towards the Cab we have a Referance of 17.5 Meg. I think there is a section of alluminium or the banding is incorrect.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

@Blackmamba
It is interesting that Surrey are tackling this long line problem and have targets for improvement. West Sussex seem content to deliver anything over 2 Mbps and that's your lot!

  • chilting
  • over 2 years ago

Hi Chil
The target for Surrey is .3% over 450k lines that covers (BT comm + SCC section). From this every Cab counts in Surrey to be over the 15 meg I received this information from BT/ Openreach at the open meeting at Dorking. I did work for BT (35 years) on BT plant at that time I had all the post codes plus the Cab positions so I feel the target was achievable. In my own time I have been out with all section on the provision to fibre to the Cabs ,sub duct , power 240v power ducting , pole work fibre.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

chilting - as you know from what West Sussex County Council told you, because you are now (and paying handsomely!) getting >2Mbps via your bonded FTTC connection it would seem they are considering you as >2Mbps for the purposes of the BDUK scheme and presumably will not be 'improving' your broadband under the scheme.

In my view if Councils are going to say "well, you COULD get >2Mbps if you took FTTC" across the area, this grossly contravenes the intent of the BDUK scheme anmd possibly EU rules.

  • mikejp
  • over 2 years ago

@mikejp
I will be suggesting to WSCC that they ask BT to install FTTRN in the SCP cabinet that is only 500M from me. This would also bring FTTC to the majority of the rest of the customers on long lines served by Cabinet 4 in West Chiltington. I would expect BT to do this as an upgrade to provide an acceptable level of service rather than using the BDUK funding.

  • chilting
  • over 2 years ago

OK - good luck! I cannot se BT talikng this as a 'commercial' move due to the small number of properties involved, and WSCC will not look at it, I'm sure, until all other work is done on the other exchanges and they start on the >2Mbps (assuming the new 'assessment' provides any.........)

  • mikejp
  • over 2 years ago

Broadband Watchers.
Hi Chil If Cab 4 in West Chiltington has not been taken over by BT / Comm Section there must be no demand or it is not cost effect they only go cherry picking like all private ventures.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

Black - all 8 village PCPs have been twinned under BDUK. The problem is the cruddy SCP connections for the longer lines.

  • mikejp
  • over 2 years ago

Hi mike.
There could be a job planned for this work to be diverted at a latter date play it cool if possible get your results on Thinkbroadband maps and the post codes updated if possible.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

@AndrueC: 'Uneconomic' usually means 'we would lose money' although it can just means 'we wouldn't make useful amounts of money'.

Sadly I think the latter is true - they are picking the low hanging fruit, which for economic reasons I understand. I wish I could blank out all the advertising for Fibre as it just rubs it in a bit!

  • Kebabselector
  • over 2 years ago

Blackmamma - I fear probably not - the County have already told a sub-2Mbps they will need to wait until end 2016.

  • mikejp
  • over 2 years ago

andrue actually 15% of total homes passed is pretty impressive, those who think it should be a much higher figure for a new product are delusional. If we had this mindset decades ago we wouldnt have tv's now e.g. Remember some of these properties will be empty, no broadband at all, cable etc.

  • chrysalis
  • over 2 years ago

Hi Chr
I checked the test Cab 12 on take up rate in Hindhead and the results were 90 tie used on the Cab 143 homes each home was advise via letter and advertising by Surrey County Council the time scale 5 months. The second Cab 14 was opened two weeks ago I have no results from this one yet both been provided by SCC.

  • Blackmamba
  • over 2 years ago

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