Broadband News

Openreach to trial nomination of exchanges for fibre enablement

BT Openreach have announced today a trial which will allow ISPs to nominate exchanges that can be enabled for the roll out of its fibre-to-the-cabinet (FTTC) services. The trial will run from September to December 2010 and will allow each provider who already buy's Openreach's fibre products (Generic Ethernet Access) to nominate up to 6 exchanges which it would like to see enabled with fibre. There are of course some commitments that ISPs will need to follow if Openreach enable the exchange.

  • If an exchange is deemed viable for commercial deployment, the ISP will need to guarantee that 10% of premises will be using its fibre broadband within a year. If this isn't met, the ISP will be liable for any costs Openreach incurred by amending deployment plans.
  • If an exchange is not deemed viable for commercial deployment, the ISP will need to fund any additional development charges faced by Openreach which will vary by exchange and are subject to a £5,000 survey per exchange.

"We've always worked very closely with industry to decide which parts of the country will benefit from fibre broadband enablement. Now we are going the extra mile for our CP customers by giving them the opportunity to specify their top six exchanges for fibre. Openreach will then include those locations for the next phase of our fibre deployment if certain commercial commitments are given. If the trial is successful, Openreach may extend the fibre nomination scheme to future phases of its fibre roll out, so we're urging all eligible CPs to participate in the trial."

David Campbell, (Managing Director of Next Generation Access) Openreach

A maximum of 24 exchanges can be added to the roll out which will occur in phase 7. Details of this will be revealed in early 2011 with exchanges expected to be upgraded in late 2011 or early 2012. With the commitments required above, it may be that many ISPs do not opt to nominate exchanges, but if they have a large group of customers in a specific area that they feel could benefit from faster broadband, there could be an incentive to nominate. The next batch of exchanges to be upgraded is expected to be announced in the coming weeks.

Comments

quote"..... will allow each provider who already buy's Openreach's fibre products (Generic Ethernet Access) to nominate up to 6 exchanges which it would like to see enabled with fibre."

I see a storm over that already.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

So what happens when BT decide to enable only 50% of the exchange's cabinets (e.g. Basingstoke). Does the take-up requirement get pro-rated?!

  • DougM
  • over 6 years ago

Why a storm CB?

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

Because im pretty sure rules on something like this dictate any wholesale providing company which BT are have to listen to all requests to enable something, not the select few who already do business with them...... I may be wrong but i seem to remember something like that from the days of 8Mb and even further back (IE when 2Mb came along).

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Its an offer for existing customers, there may be a technical reason why they can't offer it to others. For FTTC don't they have to buy GEA anyway?

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

@GMAN99:I wouldn't have thought so. They can go the WB(M)C route. I'm assuming that most will anyway. I didn't know anyone had gone for GEA+FTTC yet.

  • AndrueC
  • over 6 years ago

I wish I could run a business where all the risk is farmed out to third parties so I can't lose. "If an exchange is not deemed viable for commercial deployment, the ISP will need to fund any additional development charges faced by Openreach which will vary by exchange and are subject to a £5,000 survey per exchange." - what shares will the ISP get in thr BT Group in return for their investment in it?

  • MarkHampshire
  • over 6 years ago

None. They get a warm and fuzzy feeling for doing something to help their customer base :)

  • TaRkADaHl
  • over 6 years ago

GMAN99/Andre: GEA is the product ISPs buy from Openreach to provide the FTTC path from customer to Head end exchange. Nothing to do with backhaul, just the VDSL access path.

  • jumpmum
  • over 6 years ago

Letter to ofcom on this matter to also do it looks like LOL Thanks BT gonna be busy this weekend complaining about your breach of rules.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@jumpmum:I thought GEA was basically the FTTC 'equivalent' of LLU. Customers going the BT Wholesale route don't need to get involved in GEA do they?

  • AndrueC
  • over 6 years ago

CB - Nothing better to do with your weekend?

  • TaRkADaHl
  • over 6 years ago

Tark, he's well excited about it. :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

fap fap fap :D

  • TaRkADaHl
  • over 6 years ago

typo... I meant tap tap tap :D

  • TaRkADaHl
  • over 6 years ago

Even when FTTC is sinstalled it seems that BT'S system canot cope with an oreder if you aready have BT broadband.

  • elevator
  • over 6 years ago

quote"CB - Nothing better to do with your weekend?"

Nah ridding the country of monopoly organsiations twisting of rules, is well worth the time.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Sorry but I'm going to be more blunt than others. If this is what you plan on doing during your weekend then you are a loser.

What does everyone else think?

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

I think it's his time to do with as he pleases. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who complains /to the person responsible/. Too many people either put up with crap or only whine to other people.

If nothing else it ought to keep him quiet for an hour or two :D

  • AndrueC
  • over 6 years ago

I wish him the best of luck, I hope just he's got something more concrete than "Because im pretty sure rules on something like this dictate any wholesale providing company which BT are have to listen to all requests to enable something" :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

So, shock horror, company decides to let its customers determine the direction it takes!

Hardly a hanging offence for Openreach to be directed by its own customers, isn't this something we usually regard as good behaviour in the private sector, most likely to give long-term success?

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Seems more like they want the ISPs to do all the legwork, and if anything proves less than profitable their "customers" to suck up any costs. Does mugging your customers sound like good behaviour to you?

  • ElBobbo
  • over 6 years ago

Not really the right way of looking at it if they are covering teh vast majority of the FTTC/P deployment at their own risk - this appears to be for a relatively small number of exchanges where individual ISPs presumably feel they hava specific need, even if the numbers don't add up commercially.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

quote"I think it's his time to do with as he pleases. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who complains /to the person responsible/. Too many people either put up with crap or only whine to other people.

If nothing else it ought to keep him quiet for an hour or two :D"

Thanks for that totally fair post :)

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Exactly, the way I see it they are saying. "We have our rollout plan, if you want us to veer off it to do an exchange you think customers will be interested in commit to the take up and we'll do it"

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

What's the problem with that?

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

Nothing :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

Makes sense to me too - and anyone that runs a business!

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

I think CB's issue with it is he thinks the trial should be open to non Openreach customers as well.. although I'm not sure who that works?

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

Makes no sense whatsoever - if they are not Openreach customers they cannot take part as surely they need to be connected to the EMP?

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Ofcom ruling states that anyone can request an exchange be enabled and have trigger levels for it. NOT just Openreach customers, dont expect the 3 regular BT fanboys to comprehend that though.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

If it is against the rules the fact that this is a trial is probably how they can do it...just a gues though

  • CaptainHulaHoop
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
Er but wouldn't they need to be Openreach customers at that point? Anyway, I doubt that there is any rule from Openreach concerning trigger levels.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

So your saying as a private individual I could request BT to provide a trigger level for my local exchange for the install of FTTC and they would by law have to produce one? If that is the case then it’s a big change form when I campaigned to bring ADSL to my exchange back in the early 00’s. We had to beg / prey and hope BT would provide a trigger level. My local MP, council, and the North West regional development agency could not even get them to provide one. If it is true I may start up another campaign as I am sure I could get 300 or 400 households interested on my 2102 line exchange.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

@Donkey
I think CB is misinformed on this point - I don't believe taht there is such an Ofcom rule. Also, no use having a trigger level without having a binding requirement to implement once it is reached and I don't believe that rule exists either.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Rules or not, if you were running a business, wouldn't you invest money to rarget your biggest markets first? Your 2102 line exchange is much smaller than those getting FTTC at present. If it were your money that was being invested, wouldn't you follow the demands of your customers (the service providers in this case) and help them reach the most customers in the least time? Common sense to me if you want a return on your shareholders' investment.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

cb - do you have a link. I thought trigger levels were from the ADSL era.

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

From a purely business sense yes. However If you view broadband as a essential service with the likes of electricity and water then maybe there should be some tax payers money to incentivise the business to upgrade the not so profitable areas. Another approach would be to extent the ROI timescale to say 10 , 15, 25 years then I bet BT could fibre the whole country but they are a business and hence short to medium term returns are all that are considered. I seem to remember a figure of 3 years maximum for a ROI for an ADSL exchange back in the day.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

In an ideal world I would love to see the separation of infrastructure from services just as it is with every other service I can think of except water. Gas , Electricity, Trains, Taxis, Buses, private cars, are all provided / run on a infrastructure owned and maintained by a separate entity.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

Infrastructure competition just duplicates installation and hardware costs which are ultimately passed on to the customer. If the network infrastructure was run by a not for profit company (company not inefficient public body) then once the network was rolled out to the entire UK the costs to consumers should come down as long as the service providers did not simply increase their profit margins.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

It comes under provisioning rules and i have emailed ofcom to ask for confirmation. Im not misinformed at all, the only possible get out for them is what CaptainHulaHoop touches on and that being it may not extend to trials, we shall soon see. Email sent and letter to point out the situation is written and will be sent will be sent on Monday.

Until then fanboys can keep there personal assumptions about me to thereself.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@donkey
Not sure what you mean by separating services from infrastructure - can you elaborate more? Openreach by law service/maintain the infrastructure giving no UK company preferential treatment. ISPs run their own services (LLU) over that infrastructure or resell a Wholsale service. So what further service/infrastructure separation are you meaning?

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

cb - do you have a link to the provisioning rules?

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

I downloaded them in pdf format yesterday at work. I believe they were in the stakeholders or licensing section on ofcoms site. Will look through the mess which is ofcoms site again tomorrow for you somerset.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

cb is fishing.... The only personal assumption is his own.

"Because im pretty sure rules on something like this dictate any wholesale providing company which BT are have to listen to all requests to enable something, not the select few who already do business with them...... I may be wrong"

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

@GMan
I agree, as I said earlier, I think CB is misinformed on this point - I don't believe that there is any such Ofcom rule.

And if there is and Openreach removes this then so what? I hope CB doesn't then complain that it is taking high-handed decisions on deployment of FTTC/P and not listening to its customers, as that really would be hypocritical.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Difficult to see what prompted such apparent outrage anyway - why shouldn't any business listen to its customers and act on their preferences? Most of us would agree with any company doing that, seems like common sense to me.

Suggest Ofcom's time would be better spent elsewhere, rather than responding to complaints about behaviour that ought to be applauded. Perhaps they should get some letters to balance things up. ;-)

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

am not exactly sure what Openreach's remit is. I believe they just look after the infrastructure connected to the access side of the exchange? So I guess BT wholesale still control the backhaul and the core network? LLU is infrastructure competition in that companies cherry pick the most profitable exchanges to install their own kit in. They either use BT or they own backhaul from the exchange. The separation of services and infrastructure means exactly that. One company runs / owns the entire network, core network, backhaul and the access side.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

The said company is not allowed to provide any services direct to the customer. Then you have the services companies who through a connection to the said network provide whatever services they desire IP TV, VoIP, Internet access etc to end customers. Think of the network operator as the internet and the service provider as a website although in actuality the network operator would not provide an internet connection that would be down to a service provider.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

Think open access network. For instance the national grid delivers the electricity to your house but you buy the said electricity from a retail electricity company.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

@Donkey
Pretty much describes the structure for the telecoms market except that you have competition at the infrastructure, wholesale and retail layers, hence more competitive than the utility markets.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

The LUU equivalent for electricity would be for example Scottish power connecting your local substation to their own national electricity grid to provide you with their electricity. Unnecessary infrastructure duplication which would increase the cost of your electricity service.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

@Donkey
The evidence of pricing in the UK would not support your contention. Suggest you look at price reductions over the last few years in the UK, and also look at pricing in the UK vs. the US and major European markets to see how competition in the UK has driven down prices in the retail market further and faster here.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

More competition that increases the cost to the end consumer and leaves 1/3 of the country under serviced not good enough!

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

There are only a few places in the world who actually separate services from infrastructure in the telecoms market. I think Stockholm is one place that does.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

quote"cb is fishing.... The only personal assumption is his own."
Not at all those were my thought i then looked it up, confirmed it via the PDF, emailed ofcom and today also wrote a letter.
If ofcom agree no doubt it will be on this site and ill be sure to gloat as i always do when proved right.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Perhaps you could furnish us all with the URL and page / paragraph number in the meantime.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

^^^ Perhaps you should read my prior post where i say i will wade through ofcoms site again tomorrow for somerset. I have no history of the page on my home computer as i visited the page while at work... Do try to atleast pretend to pay attention. If i cant find it tomorrow ill look on the work machine when i go in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will have to wait then to put your BT PR spin on it.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

I recently return to the UK after living in Florida for 14 months. I had a cable connection that provided 10mbps down and 1mbps up for $47.95 a month which is about £31 roughly. I have been a Pipex customer since the dial up days around 97 and currently pay £22.91 for an ADSL max premium connection which syncs at 8128 down and 832 up. However over the past couple of years I get an average of 3.5mbps down and 670kbps up using thinkbroadband’s speed test.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

The throughput during the peak times varied very little from the advertised speed in the US compared to my ADSL connection in the UK. I would rather pay more money for a decent service than rock bottom priced broadband with wildly varying throughput.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

Cable connections are known to perform better and you have seen it first hand :)

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@Donkey
So you paid around £31 for 10Mb/1Mb cable in the US vs. £20 for 10Mb/1.5Mb cable in the UK or £24.99 for up to 40Mb/10Mb FTTC.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Carpetburn if you basis for this is triggering then your way off the mark, triggering is based on customers registering interest with ADSL, this is about asking ISP's

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

" I had a cable connection that provided 10mbps down and 1mbps up for $47.95 a month which is about £31 roughly."

it would be £48 as retail US prices in dollars are the same as here in pounds. Same with the minimum wage.

  • herdwick
  • over 6 years ago

@New_Londoner
WeWell I would gladly pay £31 a month for a cable or FTTC connection but I doubt my village will ever see the cable network expand the extra 5 miles to reach my village and FTTC is probably at least 3 to 5 years away if ever with the current cut backs in government funding.

  • donkey_hellfire
  • over 6 years ago

I am still wondering when are BT going to announce more exchanges, so far they have left big swathes of city areas untouched. Is this going to proceed the next announcement?

  • chrysalis
  • over 6 years ago

I think CB arguing the Open Reach should consider requests from 3rd parties other than those who currently do business with them already e.g. if a village put together a co-op to provide FTTC that open reach should list as long as the co-op can give the same assurances that the current ISP can to open reach.

Though CB still talking out of his backside (like he always does when its RE:BT) least this time he makes some sense

  • damien001
  • over 6 years ago

@Damien
The challenge will be whether Openreach is able to do business with anyone other than communications providers. ALso, previous co-op attenpts (mainly wi-fi) have not exactly been a raging successs in the South East.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Whether its a good idea and whether Ofcom states Openreach have to do it is another matter though.

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

^^^ Give it a few month for them to investigate and we shall see, and no still cant find the link here at home, spent a large part of the day trying :( Wednesday it will have to be.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Whilst I understand the point being made, I still think Openreach have some form of leeway that allows infrastructure maintenance and improvement to be carried out in a fashion that allows OR not to be financially disadvantaged.

So given that - I think there is probably room to manoeuvre for OR to say "put up or shut up." I think OR is effectively saying "if you want it, provide a guarantee and we'll do it, but we won't apply bad business practice just because someone is speculating that they will use the FTTC product"

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

Cb - With regards to my post above have you found out if OR has the leeway to run without exposing themselves to financial risk? - should they be forced to do risky upgrades in the early stages of the FTTC/P rollout?

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

"If an exchange is not deemed viable for commercial deployment, the ISP will need to fund any additional development charges faced by Openreach which will vary by exchange and are subject to a £5,000 survey per exchange." - if I were an ISP, I would do precisely nothing. The entire telephone network (last mile) needs replacing everywhere anyway so as to actually provide a broadband network if BT are to take broadband seriously. Prioritising is a good idea given how far behind it all is, but asking third parties to cover those costs is ridiculous.

  • MarkHampshire
  • over 6 years ago

@Mark
"Prioritising is a good idea given how far behind it all is, but asking third parties to cover those costs is ridiculous."

As I understand it, the costs are to get them to deviate from their plan, not to fund them for deploying to priority exchanges.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Mark they are not asking the ISP to fund FTTC, the rollout will continue as per the BT plan but if an ISP has a good sales reason to change the schedule this is a trialled opportunity to do so.

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

quote"...Prioritising is a good idea given how far behind it all is, but asking third parties to cover those costs is ridiculous."

Indeed dont let shareholders or staff tell you any different

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Aye... but CB have you investigated whether or not OR are allowed to operate without exposing itself to risk ? I think part of your argument is dependant on it.

If they are protected then they they may well be able to ask others to share the risk if they deviate from their original roll out plans.

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

'how far behind it all is'. Please explain.

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
I'm sorry but asking a customer to pay in order for you to take on additional, optional work that they will benefit from is what most of us in the private sector would see as perfectly normal, and sensible, business practice.

I can't imagine why you or anyone else would think this is wrong. difficult to see angle conspiracy angle in this I'm afraid.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

I've read through the original consultation and the later report, admitedly farily quickly, am struggling to spot anything that would impact on the approach proposed by Openreach in the story above.

It does however validate the requirement for CPs to be GEA customers though. The Ofcom docuements clearly confirm that this is a prerequisite of the active FTTC product and Openreach are hardly going to take prioritisation from non-customers.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Still working in the PR, marketting or ad department New_Londoner?

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
So please highlight the page and preferably paragraph where you believe it prohibits this. Fair enough if you think I've missed it, but reasonable to ask you to be more specific.

You (and others to be fair) seem to prefer attacking the individual rather than providing substantiation to your posts. These vague and irrelevant comments do you no favours, as someone once said "put up or shut up", no offence intended. :-)

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

No decent comeback on that one then CB, just a flippant response when there's nothing to give back?

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

Nope not publishing anymore ofcom links as one with evidence which i posted in another thread has suddenly been removed, you fanboys will have to find them yourself. Before my letter gets there. Proof here thats happened.....
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/4365.html
From now on ill send evidence to those that matter. And not BT staff

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Classic... I had some evidence but its now gone, you'll just have to trust me on this one folks :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

cb - your immature use of the word 'fanboy' does you no favours. To have a sensible discussion we need to discuss facts and not result to using silly names, however valid you think they are.

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

cb - why are you so concerned about the terms of a trial? Trails often happen with specific groups. If successful they then become available to all.

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

quote"Classic... I had some evidence but its now gone"
No, im sure the evidence i have with regard to this story is still there, and its going to remain there as im not linking you to it.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

quote"cb - why are you so concerned about the terms of a trial? Trails often happen with specific groups. If successful they then become available to all. "

Why are you and other supporters concerned about my thoughts on the matter?

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Just think it may not be worth your effort.

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

Why are you not linking it are you afraid of being proved wrong?

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

CB says a lot but is failing to back up his opinion with facts then spits the dummy.

I really want to see the info. I had a look and couldn't find it.

I've asked CB on whether or not he's investigated whether or not Openreach are protected from being financially disadvantaged with this type of roll out - I think it's relevant to the argument he's putting forward.

If he checks that and can show us the docs he's found I'll happily say he is right.

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
Quote "Nope not publishing anymore ofcom links as one with evidence which i posted in another thread has suddenly been removed"

Don't really see the issue as you've already said its in the FTTC consultation document, just give the page number and paragraph, or quote the relevant section here if you prefer. I'm sure service providers would complain if this document were to vanish.

Surely not a problem if the passage is present....

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

^^^ NO this is not a general consultation document. That was for the other story. And no you aint getting the link so you and the rest of the PR / AD department will have to find it for yourself.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

quote"CB says a lot but is failing to back up his opinion with facts ..."

The facts will be backed up to those who matter, nobody here matters.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Why post then. If nobody here matters why bother. Is it because you have nothing else in your life CB ?

Got to wonder - especially after your Friday statement about how you were going to spend the weekend writing letters to Ofcom... One can only speculate that writing letters and buying anoraks were probably the two most exciting things of CBs weekend. :-)

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

He's the first one to ask for links to prove something he doesn't agree with, funny eh.

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

quote "The facts will be backed up to those who matter, nobody here matters." I'm assuming you include yourself in this sweeping statement!

  • themanstan
  • over 6 years ago

Wouldn't it be ironic if some Ofcom staffers use this site! ;-)

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

Ofcom probably have him already flagged as a serial whinger

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

cb - to clarify, is your complaint that Openreach are not allowed to restrict a trial to existing GEA customers?

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

That's probably one of his complaints Somerset the other being that they shouldn't be restricting it to just Openreach customers at all, basically any CP should be allowed to have a say, that's what I made of it anyway but... who knows :)

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

Also complaining that no-one likes him....

  • TaRkADaHl
  • over 6 years ago

quote"Why post then. If nobody here matters why bother. Is it because you have nothing else in your life CB ?"

Yep and you lot have nothing better to do than reply, obviously

Letter sent this morning, given time ofcom take on matter i expect action against them around jan/feb time, hopefully a nice big fat fine.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

quote"Also complaining that no-one likes him...."

I like being disliked here, theres nothing better than watching you all get worked up as i dare to challenge BT rule breaking to the right bodies.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Silly question CB, but if BT or Openreach are breaking the rules, what does it matter to you? In the case of this story the only people being affected by rule breaking, if that is the case, would be the CP's that are not openreach customers and can't participate in the trial and if that is the case and they are bothered by it i am sure they have their own leagl proffesionals that can deal with it for them

  • CaptainHulaHoop
  • over 6 years ago

any CP's that are not using Openreaches GEA FTTc/p already obviously are not interested yet in getting involved in areas in part of the main roll out so why would they be interested in all of a sudden asking for 1 exchange are to be rolled out to and then getting onboard with them?

  • CaptainHulaHoop
  • over 6 years ago

quote"Silly question CB, but if BT or Openreach are breaking the rules, what does it matter to you?"

My business has to obey laws and rules... So can they, good enough for you?

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Fair play to CB folks - he always takes the bait and replies....

So CB are you finally going to tell us where the mystic documents are and what section is relevant to you point or will we all just assume you are a bullsh*ting keyboard warrior who is pretending to have done something ?

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

I think his links to the documents are filed along with his contributions to the various charities his business has donated to, filed under non-existent.

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

^^^ Empty words, from an empty head. Ive donated more to Children in Need than BT ever have. If you knew the name of my business you could confirm that for yourself, unfortunately for you, you dont know the name of it so you cant go digging to disprove me. BT on the other hand i can look all that up.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Well feck me... Carpetburn does a lot for charity...

But he doesn't like to talk about it... except for on this news story and the Fon one multiple times in 24hrs.

LOL. :-P

  • TheGuv
  • over 6 years ago

Well I'd say that Children in Need are probably more grateful about the platform BT provides them to allow the millions of pounds in donations each year than the copper jar on the side of his desk.

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

Im very happy to talk about it, where did i say i wasnt happy to talk about it?

@GMAN99 if you wish to provide documented evidence of money you have provided to children in need and the same evidence of amounts BT there self have given to Children in need, ill be only too happy to show documented proof of what ive done.
I doubt you have done anything, let alone a copper jar, besides its BT that loves "copper" not me. So i suggest you STFU for a change

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Great to know that we have so many generous supporters of good causes!

@CB
Getting back to the actual news item and related comments, still no sign of any evidence to back up your assertion of wrong doing.

Respecting your concern regarding documents being taken down etc, you do still have the option of simply posting the relevant sentence or two here to substantiate the comment.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

I already mentioned evidence has gone to those that matter, a BT PR worker like yourself doesnt matter
QUOTED remarks from the document could be googled, find the link yourself if you want this one pulled as bad as the other. Jog on oh and stop smoking in your flat LOL

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
Many thanks for your continuing ability to illuminate the debate with mature, constructive comments, both here and against other news items.

I suspect most people reading your comments will draw their own conclusions regarding the lack of any evidence, and will ignore the smokescreen put up about documents mentioned elsewhere disappearing from the Ofcom site once mentioned.

As suggested elsehwere, suggest you research the difference between opinion and fact for future reference.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

@donkey - please don't get me started on "Gas, Electricity" as they *still* (years after separate companies were set up) have a set of different charges depending on region, because the pricing only needed to compete with whatever the incumbent was charging.

IE if MANWEB charged more for electricity than the firm serving Sussex, other companies also tend to charge more in the same area.

  • NetGuy
  • over 6 years ago

quote"will ignore the smokescreen put up"

Have you put up a smokescreen in your flat to stop the complaints from neighbours? LOL

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
Happy to discuss further once you've confirmed that you've been able to research the difference between opinion and fact. Especially if your comments have any relevance to the matter in hand for a change.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

^^^ you mentioned smokescreens, so i asked about yours. My advice leave the window open only a little then they wont see.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

@CB
Behind your bluster there appears to be remarkably little substance. You made some pretty big statements above about perceived regulatory breaches, have been unwilling or unable to substantiate them, and have resorted to irrelevant comments to cover this up.

You are entitled to any opinion that you wish to hold, but please stop presenting it here as fact unless you can back it up with evidence.

  • New_Londoner
  • over 6 years ago

quote"You made some pretty big statements above about perceived regulatory breaches, have been unwilling or unable to substantiate them, and have resorted to irrelevant comments to cover this up."

Not at all you want to talk about rules, thats what ive done, stop breaking rules by smoking in your flat. Or is it a case of you only want to discuss rules about thing you demand i tell you about?

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

What rules CB we've yet to see any. Maybe you should have a good read of your comments before hitting the Post button because we've seen jack so far about any rule definition or breaking of said rules. You've made your initial blundering statement and spent the rest in comments trying to back peddle.

  • GMAN99
  • over 6 years ago

As i said previously "The facts will be backed up to those who matter, nobody here matters."

A previous ofcom link i gave was obviously reported by someone here and resulted in it being removed. No matter how many times you ask that mistake will not be made again. The information has been passed to those that matter.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

When news a few months down the line points out Rule breaking was going on, ill be here to say told you so.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Your point is:?

'rules on something like this dictate any wholesale providing company which BT are have to listen to all requests to enable something, not the select few who already do business with them'

  • Somerset
  • over 6 years ago

My point is ill be saying told you so and those that keep asking for proof will then have it.

  • CARPETBURN
  • over 6 years ago

Post a comment

Login Register