Broadband News

BT pledge 24Meg to 75% of the country by 2011

BT have announced today their plans for expanding their 21st Century Network, known as 21CN, to more of the country. Current deployment is to around 40% of the population and they aim to extend this to around 55% of homes and business by Spring 2010 and 75% by Spring 2011 depending on customer demand.

The extension of 21CN out to more exchanges will mean more users will be able to get broadband at up to 24Meg (BT estimate 20 million homes and businesses) and the roll out of next-generation fibre services such as fibre to the home/cabinet can expand to these areas also. There is of course a caveat. As ever, not everyone will see speeds up to this 24Meg as they are heavily dependent on distance to the exchange. The use of ADSL2+ should see some increase to users though, particularly those who live close to their exchange.

One other point announced today is that BT Wholesale will be dropping prices to communications providers from January 2010 which should reduce costs to end users. The plan is to decrease bandwidth charges by 50% and also to introduce a reduction in WBC rental costs. This should mean that providers can offer lower prices and will be more willing to bundle more bandwidth with services. This will be particularly useful with new websites tending to be more bandwidth intensive and with streaming video becoming ever more popular.

Comments

All these announcements are great but does it mean any real improvements in practice? I have been recently upgraded from 8Meg ADSL to 20Meg ADSL2+ and my real speed has dropped from 2.2Mb/s to 1.6Mb/s!!

  • dmarchant
  • over 7 years ago

They say 75% of homes *not* 75% of the country - big difference.

  • TonyHoyle
  • over 7 years ago

If ADSL2+ is slower for you than ADSL1 then simply set your modem to only negotiate ADSL1.

  • TonyHoyle
  • over 7 years ago

Having recently dumped BT in favour of a much better O2 service, I can only arrive at one conclusion where BT's "2011 pledge" is concerned: Pigs will fly.

  • colinbarrett
  • over 7 years ago

I guess transit isn't that expensive after all.

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

It's good news that BT are about to start playing catch up. But when you consider that 21,333,582 homes can get an ADSL2+ service from CPW/TalkTalk it's not a big deal. I also suspect that there will be massive over lap with exchanges that already have an LLU provider supplying ADSL2+. BT need to start deploying FTTC and FTTP ASAP to the 45% of the country that can't get Virgin media, that where the money is!

  • timmay
  • over 7 years ago

I mean 21,917,287 total premises covered by CPW/TalkTalk.

  • timmay
  • over 7 years ago

My 21CN "Up to 20Mbps" connection syncs at 6800kbps.
Big deal.

  • JeremyBoden
  • over 7 years ago

Is this just 21CN WBC? What about 21CN PSTN switchover? My exchange was supposed to be switched to 21CN PSTN Q4 2008 but according to samknows it hasn't yet.

  • dov1
  • over 7 years ago

"They say 75% of homes *not* 75% of the country - big difference." - Yep I'm sure it is... at what point did it become good business sense to provide ADSL2+ to an area where there are no homes just so you can include it in your % of the country figures?

  • GMAN99
  • over 7 years ago

So while i'm here with less than 512kbs on the fastest line that I can buy where I am... I'm now paying for everyone else's line to become *even* faster, while nothing at all gets done about mine. Typical.

  • Siyfion
  • over 7 years ago

More verbal diarrhea from BT, we had to have our line profile downgraded to 8mbs obtaining 6 when we were upgraded to 24mb/s. It was just too unstable and just couldnt run a business with it.

anyway talking about 2011. ill be enjoying 100mb/s by then.

  • lloydio
  • over 7 years ago

If your speed went down... check your wiring. That's been the culprit a fair number of the cases I've looked at so far, it's more sensitive to bad wiring. And you can allways set the negociation, as mentioned.

To the rest: Massive whining about speed boosts as usual I see.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

Same as when ADSL was first introduced. BT enabled exchanges in areas that already had NTL/TW, and wondered why takeup was low. What BT need to do is upgrade exchanges that DON'T have any LLU operators already there. But those exchanges already have customers who are forced to use BT, so I guess it won't happen.

  • Bruce
  • over 7 years ago

Gee. 2011. I already ADSL2 from one of your competitors. I feel so excited.

Not.

Pull yer finger out, BT.

  • AndrueC
  • over 7 years ago

Bruce - The major exchanges are still far more profitable simply based on the number of customers using BT lines on them.

AndrueC - Great, and do they cover 75% of the households in the country?

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

Oh, and if the company you're with is so great, where's /their/ successor to ADSL2 they're rolling out, hm?

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

The plan is to decrease bandwidth charges by 50% and also to introduce a reduction in WBC rental costs.

Now i wonder if this has anything to do with ISP's moving away from BTw ,and all the problems they have encountered moving to wbc.Its stunning that they can suddenly halve the price of bandwidth.

  • Aqualung
  • over 7 years ago

might be something to do with the fact aaisp pointed out BTw charge 20x the going rate for transit, and the growing number of isps moving to LLU wholesale services.

  • chrysalis
  • over 7 years ago

chrysalis - Link plz (seriously)

And sure, but that's shifting arround on the back of BT's hardware, not rolling out their own.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

@Dawn_Falcon:My ISP doesn't claim to be a technology leader. They just buy and install kit that's widely available on the market and utilise other companies networks (BT's for one).

Despite that, where they have a presence they currently provide a better implementation of ADSL2 than BT and have been for many years. They are even offering a wholesale variant now and it seems better than BT's.

  • AndrueC
  • over 7 years ago

since when has backhaul from exchanges been transit ?

  • herdwick
  • over 7 years ago

I'm guessing it's not really going to matter - they may halve the cost of the transit, but the backhaul from the exchanges is still going to be overcontended.

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

AndrueC - Quite. My point is that they /won't/ push things foward in an infrastructure sense. VM have dropped the ball, and are steadfastly ignoring it, so the only realistic prospect for county-wide improvement is, well, BT.

ElBobbit - Mm-hum.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

What an exceedingly dodgy title xD

Good news for those who have been unable to enjoy the benefits of an LLU enabled exchange though.

  • mishminx
  • over 7 years ago

BANDED PROFILES. The brain child of BTw when coming up with there new DLM on 21cn.
Am on plusnets trial of 21cn and my 51db atten fastpath line has bein capped to a sync of 3074 (no matter when i sync its allways 3074 spot on) on a 15db noise margin.

  • scootie
  • over 7 years ago

On 20cn my line happily ran at a sync between 3500-4000kbps on a 12db noise margin on fastpath.
I belive plusnet have asked BTw to rethink how they depoly banded profiles on the DLM.
I would like to see an option like interleaving to be able to request banding on or off. dont get me wrong the banded profiles are pretty good if your line is unstable but the 21cn DLM goes over the top with using them and puts banding on perfectly stable lines.

  • scootie
  • over 7 years ago

Where can I find an updated list of exchanges and their activation dates?

  • timmay
  • over 7 years ago

Nowhere yet.

  • Somerset
  • over 7 years ago

Even if this made sense, rather than proper government investment, would it not be more appropriate to (Stealth-)Tax those using Broadband Itself (above a certain speed or bandwidth) rather than include those who don't have or cannot get it! Those who the scheme is meant to help, not charge...

  • KevinR
  • over 7 years ago

I assume this means I'll still not be able to get over 1Mbit. BT sucks.

  • Scum
  • over 7 years ago

I'm paying for an upto 16Meg and recieving less than 1Meg... I would be happy with a pledge of 8Meg by the end of the week!

  • BITS
  • over 7 years ago

I`ve been with Bt Total Broadband Option 3 for a number of years and never had any real reason to complain. My connection speed is excellent. Only once (14 months ago) did I have to complain to BT and my complaint was all dealt with within 24 hours.
My brother also moved over to BT, from O2, who were - in his words, just useless in every sense of the word. he is now enjoying a much better service and his connection speed is also very good.
All in all I`m pleased with BT and am awaiting the upgrade of my local telephone exchange.

  • Blood-Donor
  • over 7 years ago

BITS - And you've checked your house wiring? How far are you from the exchange?

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

The article says BT are extending to 75% of the country from 40% of the population to 75% of houses and businesses.

This depends on demand.

Also not everyone will get it due to distance from exchange.

Is it me or is this article garbage?

  • peteADSL
  • over 7 years ago

Been with TalkTalk for two years. I sorted out my house wiring and it improved sync speed by 25%! My "up to 8mb" syncs at 5.4mbps and is very reliable.

As I am around 4k line length (rather than "as the crow flies") from the exchange, I'll get no better from "up to 24mb". I guess I'll have to wait for FTTC or FTTP to come in. I'm in a fairly urban area here in Warrington near some major business parks so I'm hoping sooner rather than later!

  • leshewitt
  • over 7 years ago

1km from the exchange (road-wise).

35dB attenuation, got ~11Mb.

I'm pissed (I also changed everything my side of the line to check), my ISP is ICUK and they are all but helpful :(

  • otester
  • over 7 years ago

"Is it me or is this article garbage? "

I've seen better.

In the absence of a link to the BT press release, I'm assuming (but would welcome confirmation) that what we're really being told is that:
. 21CN will reach 75% of *exchanges* by Spring 2011, subject to demand
. those exchanges will mostly be the deregulated ones where LLU and cable already exist
. even on those exchanges, 24Mbit isn't real
. the vast majority of people will see a lot less than 24Mbit
. guesswork: outside those exchanges, BTw prices will rise

  • c_j_
  • over 7 years ago

So basically you're being a equine's rear end.

Try actually reading the article? 75% of homes and businesses, not exchanges, for starters.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

cj - it's not difficult to find...

http://www.btplc.com/News/Articles/Showarticle.cfm?ArticleID=F2F97B8B-3DC8-42DA-9866-6F26F421C702

  • Somerset
  • over 7 years ago

DawnFalcon says: "75% of homes and businesses, not exchanges, for starters. "

Which is of course correct as per the press release (cheers Somerset). Apologies.

Afaict, the rest stands as is.

As regards realistic line speed distribution: try http://www.samknows.com/broadband/news/isps-reveal-line-speed-data-792.html e.g.
"Plusnet ... showing 36.5% of customers at 6M or above and 28% at 3M or below" (but please read the whole thing).

Not quite the same as "75% at 24Mbit" as per the headline.

  • c_j_
  • over 7 years ago

Whatever BT say about their new system, you can be assured that it will only be the minority who get the full service. My "normal" speed is around the 2000kbps but every 6 weeks or so it dips as low as 250kbps and then rises to 500kbps. It will stay at this speed until I complain several times to Bt Internet and then magically it's up to 2000kbps again. The future's bright........NOT!

  • ynysettws
  • over 7 years ago

@ynysettws:The service is 'up to 24Mb'. Everyone who syncs (regardless of speed) is getting 'the full service'.

You should post your line stats. It sounds like your line is unstable causing the exchange to drop the speed to try and stablise it. The cause of that a lot of times is internal wiring.

  • AndrueC
  • over 7 years ago

That's funny, if I sign up for electricity and all I can run is a single light, I don't think people would rush to defend the electricity company.
The magical words 'up to' should not defend a poor product, nor excuse false advertising.

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

Your electricity supplier provides you with "up to" 100A of power in most cases - do you think that if your whole village/town used their full 100A everything would still work? You'd be getting the candles out faster than you could say, "Where's the matches?"

  • KarlAustin
  • over 7 years ago

As for those complaining about BT Internet - this news item has very little to do with them, and more to do with Openreach and BT Wholesale - the fact that BT Internet may or may not be rubbish is not really relevant to BT Wholesale/Openreach in this context.

  • KarlAustin
  • over 7 years ago

So why are BT taking so long to roll out 24Mbps when TalkTalk have got it already and they use BT exchanges?

  • MickY_G
  • over 7 years ago

BT have done 40% - similar to TT?

  • Somerset
  • over 7 years ago

Elbobbit - You're also paying per-unit. If everone paid £1/GB in advance, plus £2/Mbit of download and £5/Mbit of upload per month, then there would be faster connections.

And the words "up to" are necessary because of this pesky thing called "physics".

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

TT - 1719 exchanges, BT WBC - 573.

  • Somerset
  • over 7 years ago

Funny, Dawn, since you can get dedicated servers with 10TB/month for £60 on a rolling contract in the UK. How do you explain the massive disparity?
ISPs using BTW's network have to limit so much because BTW charges such a ridiculous amount (hence why they can afford to drop their cost by 50% at the drop of a hat, as they did recently).

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

dawn_falcon, link in reference to 20x cost.

http://revk.www.me.uk/2009/09/is-600kbs-good-enough-for-broadband.html

Thats from the owner/director of aaisp.

  • chrysalis
  • over 7 years ago

"Elbobbit - You're also paying per-unit. If everone paid £1/GB in advance, plus £2/Mbit of download and £5/Mbit of upload per month, then there would be faster connections."

of course as that would be taking us back a decade, since noone would be using their broadband. I suggest you do some research because believe me what BTw charge for shifting traffic about is obscenely high and is the #1 cause for ipstream services having such poor quality, low retail pricing probably been the #2 cause.

  • chrysalis
  • over 7 years ago

Your electricity supplier provides you with "up to" 100A of power in most cases - do you think that if your whole village/town used their full 100A everything would still work? You'd be getting the candles out faster than you could say, "Where's the matches?"

no of course not, but it does work during their peak periods or do you disagree?

  • chrysalis
  • over 7 years ago

"it does work during their peak periods"

Course it does. The UK's power generation and distribution system was designed by engineers with a clue, and with a legal as well as moral obligation for "continuity of supply".

Piratisation means that safety margins are a lot smaller these days, which has led to National Grid issuing "Notice of Insufficient Margin" on a rather large number of occasions in recent years. And don't even think about the 2015-2020 picture with the current nukes gone and the new ones not ready.

Contrast with BTwholesale. Or, better still, don't.

  • c_j_
  • over 7 years ago

chrysalis - And Ofcom's refusal to address it is noteable. They've got enough time to do make-work, though...

(What, you think I'd defend BT's pricing? Heck no)

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

"Funny, Dawn, since you can get dedicated servers with 10TB/month for £60 on a rolling contract in the UK. How do you explain the massive disparity? "

It's called overselling - 10TB of data transfer is about 50Mbit/s of 95th percentile bandwidth. They know most won't use that much, so they can oversell and it allows the few that do want to use it to do so without the company making a huge loss - If everyone used it, they'd be in trouble (network capacity and cost in most cases). Also transit bandwidth is a v. different thing to transport - which is effectively what BT Central is.

  • KarlAustin
  • over 7 years ago

It's irrelevant if it's not possible for everyone to use it all at once; it's only relevant if you _can_ use it and there are no charges.

BTW charge orders of magnitude greater than they should be doing, leading to a ridiculously low limit imposed by ISPs using their network.

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

Say 10TB/month at roughly 32Mbit average with - say - two 10Gbit peerings means you can have 640 customers doing the absolute limit... that's not bad for a dedicated server company.

Now imagine if you limit them to the usual 30GB/month over BT's network - that's dial up speeds. You could have 230,000 customers over the same two border links.

Now do you understand what an utter joke BTW's pricing is?

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

It's relevant to the point you made. Deal.

Karl - Right. (Ssh, sense!)

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

ElBobbo - Which bit of transit/peering NOT being transport are you not getting? :) Peering and transit are two entirely different things to IP transport - Long haul transport costs significantly more than a 10GE port at LINX does. The Central prices are transport, not transit or peering. You're paying for BT to backhaul all the traffic from all over the country to your PoP - Just ask Entanet how cheap that is, and they only do it from 20 sites now thousands. Yes I think it's overpriced, but not by the factors you seem to believe.

  • KarlAustin
  • over 7 years ago

341 times more expensive, huh?

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

By the way, transit is transit - even BTW refers to transit to their Aggregation Points (APs).

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

I give in. You obviously work in this industry and know how much it costs to run fibre up and down the country and operate it. It's not like I've heavily looked in to this or anything over the years and have 10 years experience in this industry or anything.

  • KarlAustin
  • over 7 years ago

KarlAustin ++

Yes, it's an area which needs work, but they have a 50% price reduction in the pipeline. And more to come, per what they've said. A huge chunk of the issue was the running costs of the 20CN network!

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

Argument to authority is no argument at all, Karl. If it's so blatantly obvious and you - like Dawn - are so wildly experienced and knowledgeable it should be easy for you to back up your arguments.
You can't argue that it's hundreds of times more expensive, and you can't argue that it's called transit.

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

He has.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

He has what, said that BTW doesn't do transit? BTW even calls it transit. Shown that transit from the end user to the APs costs hundreds of times that of peering?. You said you wouldn't defend their pricing (and then did so) and Karl finished up his post saying it was overpriced.

  • ElBobbo
  • over 7 years ago

Does anyone know how to see when BT will be upgrading exchanges to 21CN?
I have checked SamKnows but that only states initial BT planned dates as expressed in 2006

  • pnewey
  • over 7 years ago

No, that's not what he said at all.

And no, I didn't defend their pricing, just the degree you seem to believe it is, based on prices from a datacenter, which is *not* equivalent to a home connection.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

KarlAustin your argument has a point on traditional ipstream and the managed version of wbc, but what about the wbc where isps have their own backhauls from the 20 nodes scattered around the country, entanet eg. The backhaul costs are still extorniate. and of course when you buy transit from the likes of level3 and cogent, do you not think they dont have their own long transport pipes? BT may have higher costs to deal with in the rural areas, but it doesnt excuse that what they charge is excessive and proven by the fact they were able to do a sudden 50% drop in prices.

  • chrysalis
  • over 7 years ago

chrysalis - The drop is related to 21CNs far lower costs for BT, as I understand it.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

"The drop is related to 21CNs far lower costs for BT, as I understand it. "

And not at all related to the recent introduction of a wholesale LLU product competing with BTw?

  • c_j_
  • over 7 years ago

The price drop was known for some time in advance, sooo...no.

  • Dawn_Falcon
  • over 7 years ago

Yes of course Level(3) etc. have the long haul network costs - but between selected locations, not to 5000 locations within a country the size of the UK.

I've never said BT Centrals were cheap, but they aren't over-priced to the factors you seem to believe they are either. BT said that 21CN would bring them £1bn in savings per year - so they are using that to allow a reduction in the costs to ISPs. As for wholesale LLU - it's been available for years via several providers.

  • KarlAustin
  • over 7 years ago

Dawn_Falcon thanks for your mention. You're privileged to have had such a good experience with your ADSL. Just to clarify, I have previously experienced rates of 8 meg with another ISP (PlusNet) with my existing configuration. I made a business decision to move to Nildram bonded ADSL around 3 years ago to experiment with that option. I had the bonded ADSL removed after about a year and replaced with an upto 8 meg option with Nildram. I had a variable experience of both performance and quality, with data rates only of around 6 meg at best down to 500k but on average around 4 meg.(continued)

  • BITS
  • over 7 years ago

I have also been waiting over 9 months to have an issue with the connection dropping on inbound and outbound telephone calls; that has only just been fixed. My internal and external lines and equipment have been checked several times during that period. Just to put to rest any doubts about my technical experience, I am an ICT professional with over 20 years of experience. So I think that I have some idea about the issues that I have. But thanks again.

  • BITS
  • over 7 years ago

PS. My data rate has just this week crept back up to a 5.5 meg maximum but around 4 meg average.

  • BITS
  • over 7 years ago

Appologies Dawn_Falcon, misread the postee with regard to my statement about 'good experience' should be directed to Blood-Donor

Line length 2.3km currently 30db

  • BITS
  • over 7 years ago

http://nga-uk.blogspot.com/2009/10/more-about-adsl2.html
Explains it all very well.

  • cyberdoyle
  • over 7 years ago

Post a comment

Login Register