£44 wholesale price for 100Mbps fibre at Ebbsfleet
Thursday 10 January 2008 10:29:36 by Andrew Ferguson
Ebbsfleet is currently held up as the premier broadband location in the UK, and once the fibre based broadband connections start to become active the take-up of the various price points and interest for the wholesale connections may well dictate the future of fibre based broadband in the UK.
Some basic pricing has now appeared, with BT Openreach releasing indicative wholesale pricing, of £8.33 per month for a basic connection, rising to £44 a month for a 100Mbps connection. Of course the price to consumers will be higher as the retail providers will need to cover their costs for connecting these connections to the Internet etc.
Virgin Media is usually very coy with the breakdown of how many customers it has on its various broadband products, the assumption generally though is that people find the £37 a month 20Mbps product too expensive, and it is likely to be the same with 100Mbps connections if their wholesale price is to be around the £44 mark. The key thing for both Virgin Media with its 50Mbps roll-out in 2008 and any future fibre roll-out from other providers will be whether enough early adopters will be happy to pay upwards of £40 a month to cover a reasonable proportion of the roll-out costs.
More can be read about the Ebbsfleet developments at The Guardian, and for those who want to know more about the 10,000 home developement the EbbsfleetValley.co.uk website is the place to go.
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Posted by
CARPETBURN 9 months ago
Id happily pay around £50 to BT or any ISP for a 100Mb product.... Just as long as it is true 100Mb and not some throttled to death rubbish when using certain protocols, or so rubbish with a silly unrealistic cap. If its throttled or has caps to worry about for the average person the price will be too high and nobody will want it (well nobody with any sense, after all who would pay £50 quid for a product and only be able to use it a certain amount).
Id happily pay around £50 to BT or any ISP for a 100Mb product.... Just as long as it is true 100Mb and not some throttled to death rubbish when using certain protocols, or so rubbish with a silly unrealistic cap. If its throttled or has caps to worry about for the average person the price will be too high and nobody will want it (well nobody with any sense, after all who would pay £50 quid for a product and only be able to use it a certain amount).
Posted by
AndrueC 9 months ago
Heh, maybe my £50 a month offer is tenable after all. Though as Carpetburn says I'd want to know how much throttling we'd have to contend with.
Heh, maybe my £50 a month offer is tenable after all. Though as Carpetburn says I'd want to know how much throttling we'd have to contend with.
Posted by
nettech 9 months ago
I can't see how any ISP would be able to offer a 100Mbps access without some form of throttling or low caps etc., without some serious investment in infrastructure. Their networks would get saturated once more than a handful of users were connected.
I can't see how any ISP would be able to offer a 100Mbps access without some form of throttling or low caps etc., without some serious investment in infrastructure. Their networks would get saturated once more than a handful of users were connected.
Posted by
bezuk 9 months ago
Was there any mention of upstream speed at all - I can't seem to see anything in the linked articles. For me it'd be worth it no matter what but doubly so if the upstream were say 25Mb or more on the 100Mb product (or even, in the land of wishful thinking, fully symmetric)
Was there any mention of upstream speed at all - I can't seem to see anything in the linked articles. For me it'd be worth it no matter what but doubly so if the upstream were say 25Mb or more on the 100Mb product (or even, in the land of wishful thinking, fully symmetric)
Posted by
ricowhaz 9 months ago
There is a bit more info on this over at theregister, they have included the link below with details on pricing.
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/pricing/wes/downloads/GEA_Indicative_Pricing_Jan_2008.pdf
There is a bit more info on this over at theregister, they have included the link below with details on pricing.
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/pricing/wes/downloads/GEA_Indicative_Pricing_Jan_2008.pdf
Posted by
kev445 9 months ago
The upload on the 10Mbit, 30Mbit and 100Mbit packages will be 2.5Mbit.
It will be interesting to see how many companies will actually offer the 100Mbit package. Most home routers on the market at the moment will only have a throughout of between 10Mbit and 40Mbit at the very best.
The upload on the 10Mbit, 30Mbit and 100Mbit packages will be 2.5Mbit.
It will be interesting to see how many companies will actually offer the 100Mbit package. Most home routers on the market at the moment will only have a throughout of between 10Mbit and 40Mbit at the very best.
Posted by
nettech 9 months ago
If it's fibre why aren't the speeds symmetric??
If it's fibre why aren't the speeds symmetric??
Posted by
KarlAustin 9 months ago
It isn't symmetric because that'd dilute the leased line business. 100mbit/s for £50/month still isn't happening, not without some very low caps, 100Mbit/s of quality bandwidth costs a lot more than £50/month.
It isn't symmetric because that'd dilute the leased line business. 100mbit/s for £50/month still isn't happening, not without some very low caps, 100Mbit/s of quality bandwidth costs a lot more than £50/month.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 9 months ago
2.5Mb upload huh... Knew there had to be a catch as BT are involved.
That is pretty poor for a fibre service. I wouldnt expect it to be symmetric for around 50 quid a month but i would expect an uprate higher than that ADSL2+ can provide. Even if it was 5Mb or 10Mb uprate i dont think thats unresonable. As usual another BT product that needs looking at the tiny print to realise how naff it is.
2.5Mb upload huh... Knew there had to be a catch as BT are involved.
That is pretty poor for a fibre service. I wouldnt expect it to be symmetric for around 50 quid a month but i would expect an uprate higher than that ADSL2+ can provide. Even if it was 5Mb or 10Mb uprate i dont think thats unresonable. As usual another BT product that needs looking at the tiny print to realise how naff it is.
Posted by
AndrueC 9 months ago
Yeah 2.5Mb for the higher speeds seems a bit unreasonable. It's all very well protecting the leased-line business but for £50 a month I think they could do a bit better. 5Mb at least.
Yeah 2.5Mb for the higher speeds seems a bit unreasonable. It's all very well protecting the leased-line business but for £50 a month I think they could do a bit better. 5Mb at least.
Posted by
herdwick 9 months ago
"GEA with Base Data Port (BDP) ‘assured’ as a potential 10Mbit/s downstream and 2Mbit/s
upstream bandwidth (or as otherwise agreed) over a single VLAN." - doesn't actually define the upstream burst speed AFAICS although the PON architecture is a factor.
The basic pricing appears to be £15/month for the lowest ethernet service - the £8.33 per month is for a VoIP type port at 135k assured symetrical.
"GEA with Base Data Port (BDP) ‘assured’ as a potential 10Mbit/s downstream and 2Mbit/s
upstream bandwidth (or as otherwise agreed) over a single VLAN." - doesn't actually define the upstream burst speed AFAICS although the PON architecture is a factor.
The basic pricing appears to be £15/month for the lowest ethernet service - the £8.33 per month is for a VoIP type port at 135k assured symetrical.
Posted by
carpet 9 months ago
Typical that the press are confusing the public once more with the Guardian claiming speeds of "100 MB per second".
Typical that the press are confusing the public once more with the Guardian claiming speeds of "100 MB per second".
Posted by
boggits 9 months ago
This is GPON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network) so its not as simple to just make it a symmetrical service
This is GPON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network) so its not as simple to just make it a symmetrical service
Posted by
CARPETBURN 9 months ago
The more i read up on this the less it sounds like its worth paying for.... seems its a shared upstream service where you may not even get that 2.5Mb if everyone is uploading... Typical another hyped out of all proportion service. Will anything ever be as it seems when the words BT Openreach are used... It appears not.
The more i read up on this the less it sounds like its worth paying for.... seems its a shared upstream service where you may not even get that 2.5Mb if everyone is uploading... Typical another hyped out of all proportion service. Will anything ever be as it seems when the words BT Openreach are used... It appears not.
Posted by
AndrueC 9 months ago
@Carpet:That sounds like a typical cable system. Probably a similar issue. One cable loop with houses coming off that. Result is that everyone in the neighbourhood shares the fat link back to the exchange.
@Carpet:That sounds like a typical cable system. Probably a similar issue. One cable loop with houses coming off that. Result is that everyone in the neighbourhood shares the fat link back to the exchange.
Posted by
chrysalis 9 months ago
Typical BT looking to protect their leased line market, I have looked at fibre products worldwide and they are usally up/down equal speeds so BT again are the odd one out. Leased lines come with 1:1 contention, decent SLAs and other perks so would still be differientated.
Typical BT looking to protect their leased line market, I have looked at fibre products worldwide and they are usally up/down equal speeds so BT again are the odd one out. Leased lines come with 1:1 contention, decent SLAs and other perks so would still be differientated.
Posted by
bosie 9 months ago
I'll pay £44 for a non-contended (at least that's visible) 100Mbps service. Where do I sign?
I'll pay £44 for a non-contended (at least that's visible) 100Mbps service. Where do I sign?
Posted by
Somerset 9 months ago
bosie - What would you use 100Mbps for?
bosie - What would you use 100Mbps for?
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
A fast speed for the elite few 1st Class. 2nd Class 4.6mb for the rest of the herd.
What happended to the roll out of 24mb ADSL 2 + UK wide in 2008? Guess its not happening this year again. Oh well maybe next year or the year after etc etc etc.
A fast speed for the elite few 1st Class. 2nd Class 4.6mb for the rest of the herd.
What happended to the roll out of 24mb ADSL 2 + UK wide in 2008? Guess its not happening this year again. Oh well maybe next year or the year after etc etc etc.
Posted by
adslmax 9 months ago
Guzzo, BTW is going to start ADSL2+ up to 24Mbps in Spring 2008 with a 21CN roll-out and end by early 2012. Some area's of UK will be upgrade in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and finally 2012 (depend on your local exchange 21CN upgrade date) Mine won't be until Oct-Dec 2011 - yes a very disappointed slow as a snail from BT.
Guzzo, BTW is going to start ADSL2+ up to 24Mbps in Spring 2008 with a 21CN roll-out and end by early 2012. Some area's of UK will be upgrade in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and finally 2012 (depend on your local exchange 21CN upgrade date) Mine won't be until Oct-Dec 2011 - yes a very disappointed slow as a snail from BT.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 9 months ago
QUOTE"A fast speed for the elite few 1st Class. 2nd Class 4.6mb for the rest of the herd.
What happended to the roll out of 24mb ADSL 2 + UK wide in 2008? Guess its not happening this year again. Oh well maybe next year or the year after etc etc etc."
Alot of people wont be missing anything, live more than a few miles from the exchange and you wont see much if any benefit to line speed anyway.
QUOTE"A fast speed for the elite few 1st Class. 2nd Class 4.6mb for the rest of the herd.
What happended to the roll out of 24mb ADSL 2 + UK wide in 2008? Guess its not happening this year again. Oh well maybe next year or the year after etc etc etc."
Alot of people wont be missing anything, live more than a few miles from the exchange and you wont see much if any benefit to line speed anyway.
Posted by
john (
staff member)
9 months ago
100Mbps would probably not be hugely useful to people at the moment anyway unless you are watching multiple high-def TV channels. Most webservers are probably still connected to their local switch at 100Mbps, and even then, bandwidth will often be limited to less than this as using all of that 100Mbps could cost upwards of �1000/month. ISPs aren't likely to bring in a new cheap product that makes their existing revenue streams obsolete- they'd go out of business (it's not just about BT). Expect a lot of contention on high speed products.
staff member)
9 months ago
100Mbps would probably not be hugely useful to people at the moment anyway unless you are watching multiple high-def TV channels. Most webservers are probably still connected to their local switch at 100Mbps, and even then, bandwidth will often be limited to less than this as using all of that 100Mbps could cost upwards of �1000/month. ISPs aren't likely to bring in a new cheap product that makes their existing revenue streams obsolete- they'd go out of business (it's not just about BT). Expect a lot of contention on high speed products.
Posted by
nettech 9 months ago
@adslmax - the 21CN migration date for an exchange DOES NOT determine when BT ADSL2+ will be available at that exchange.
@adslmax - the 21CN migration date for an exchange DOES NOT determine when BT ADSL2+ will be available at that exchange.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 9 months ago
quote"100Mbps would probably not be hugely useful to people at the moment anyway unless you are watching multiple high-def TV channels."
Agreed, however with a fibre system could they (and im keeping the terminolgy simple)not split that up and provide people with say 25Mb each instead, which would mean people still get more than current systems and people in the middle of nowhere (atleast where exchanges are concerned) would get much better speed.
quote"100Mbps would probably not be hugely useful to people at the moment anyway unless you are watching multiple high-def TV channels."
Agreed, however with a fibre system could they (and im keeping the terminolgy simple)not split that up and provide people with say 25Mb each instead, which would mean people still get more than current systems and people in the middle of nowhere (atleast where exchanges are concerned) would get much better speed.
Posted by
chrysalis 9 months ago
what would I use 100mbs for?
the question should be what would I use 5mbps+ for? as I can only get 5.5mbit throughput now so the gain would be going to 10mbit and beyond.
Think past the headline speeds people, the vast majority of people wont even get 10meg on adsl2+.
what would I use 100mbs for?
the question should be what would I use 5mbps+ for? as I can only get 5.5mbit throughput now so the gain would be going to 10mbit and beyond.
Think past the headline speeds people, the vast majority of people wont even get 10meg on adsl2+.
Posted by
herdwick 9 months ago
"the vast majority of people wont even get 10meg on adsl2+" - I reckon at least half will get 10M.
None of these fibre services are going to be uncontended, nor do they need to be.
"the vast majority of people wont even get 10meg on adsl2+" - I reckon at least half will get 10M.
None of these fibre services are going to be uncontended, nor do they need to be.
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
Considering only 4 million people have a satellite dish and the rest of the Uk is on digital or analogue ariel the idea of of evolving the speed and cabling system of broadband around High Def TV is insane and will cost the Uk dearly. Quite frankly High Def TV is another overated product
Considering only 4 million people have a satellite dish and the rest of the Uk is on digital or analogue ariel the idea of of evolving the speed and cabling system of broadband around High Def TV is insane and will cost the Uk dearly. Quite frankly High Def TV is another overated product
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
that is being driven by the greedy and manipulative side of big business. People paying £3k last year for LCD/Plasma Tv's High def "ready" They see this year 60% cheaper. LOL LOL. thats what slick marketing does to the fool. It is going the same way. Broadband speed should be planned around the majority need not the minority gimmik.
that is being driven by the greedy and manipulative side of big business. People paying £3k last year for LCD/Plasma Tv's High def "ready" They see this year 60% cheaper. LOL LOL. thats what slick marketing does to the fool. It is going the same way. Broadband speed should be planned around the majority need not the minority gimmik.
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
I stated before the Net is a text based information highway. Why people want to lock themselves indoors playing "games" is curious. Why the Communications industry seems to plan the cabling/connect system around this "think" is also weird. I have a constant 7.5mb LLU connection and cannot see why I would need more?
I stated before the Net is a text based information highway. Why people want to lock themselves indoors playing "games" is curious. Why the Communications industry seems to plan the cabling/connect system around this "think" is also weird. I have a constant 7.5mb LLU connection and cannot see why I would need more?
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
Of course if my ISP offers 24mb for the same cost Ok I will take it. perhaps ebay will load a few seconds faster.. WOW gosh. I think however we may end up being forced to pay huge amounts for the 24mb speed and 8mb being dumped and not available. Has anyone considered that?
Of course if my ISP offers 24mb for the same cost Ok I will take it. perhaps ebay will load a few seconds faster.. WOW gosh. I think however we may end up being forced to pay huge amounts for the 24mb speed and 8mb being dumped and not available. Has anyone considered that?
Posted by
CARPETBURN 9 months ago
quote"Of course if my ISP offers 24mb for the same cost Ok I will take it. perhaps ebay will load a few seconds faster.. WOW gosh. I think however we may end up being forced to pay huge amounts for the 24mb speed and 8mb being dumped and not available. Has anyone considered that?"
Same thing was said when MAX came along and everyone on 2Mb fixed said they didnt need it or want it.
quote"Of course if my ISP offers 24mb for the same cost Ok I will take it. perhaps ebay will load a few seconds faster.. WOW gosh. I think however we may end up being forced to pay huge amounts for the 24mb speed and 8mb being dumped and not available. Has anyone considered that?"
Same thing was said when MAX came along and everyone on 2Mb fixed said they didnt need it or want it.
Posted by
bosie 9 months ago
What would i do with 100Mbps? Not a lot probably but if enough people can get it there will be some very interesting services starting up. Digital media is just waiting to be set free.
What would i do with 100Mbps? Not a lot probably but if enough people can get it there will be some very interesting services starting up. Digital media is just waiting to be set free.
Posted by
Dawn_Falcon 9 months ago
Carpet - And the fact remains that a lot of people don't. My parents are on MAX and get under 1MBit, where they had a stable, fixed 2MBit before. And for this, they pay more.
Carpet - And the fact remains that a lot of people don't. My parents are on MAX and get under 1MBit, where they had a stable, fixed 2MBit before. And for this, they pay more.
Posted by
Forsaken1984 9 months ago
Untill fibre comes along we will never really get anything better than 4 meg, BT wont upgrade our lines that are now 25 years old, THEY WORK as they see it, oh and we get capped in the evenings, 0.5meg their goes my online gaming, bring on the higher speeds PLEASE
Untill fibre comes along we will never really get anything better than 4 meg, BT wont upgrade our lines that are now 25 years old, THEY WORK as they see it, oh and we get capped in the evenings, 0.5meg their goes my online gaming, bring on the higher speeds PLEASE
Posted by
Forsaken1984 9 months ago
What would i do with 100meg, well at the mo i cant even get BT Vision, so might be able to get that for a start, during peek times me and my wife cant play guild wars togethere, 0.5meg come on BT cant do crap with that..
What would i do with 100meg, well at the mo i cant even get BT Vision, so might be able to get that for a start, during peek times me and my wife cant play guild wars togethere, 0.5meg come on BT cant do crap with that..
Posted by
Forsaken1984 9 months ago
Even if they capped the 100meg service you wouldnt notice it, which would be bloody great, oh i know when we get capped, its worse than being on dial up, maybe bringing in the higher speeds is a gimmick but least we will end up with a more stable line to play games and view films on
Even if they capped the 100meg service you wouldnt notice it, which would be bloody great, oh i know when we get capped, its worse than being on dial up, maybe bringing in the higher speeds is a gimmick but least we will end up with a more stable line to play games and view films on
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
WOW digital media.
Cant wait. Must throw my TV away and buy an expensive graphics card. Oh Please. I for one am with BT max on this one. digital media ie CD sound has never been good enough for the attuned ear. I would not have a CD in the house
WOW digital media.
Cant wait. Must throw my TV away and buy an expensive graphics card. Oh Please. I for one am with BT max on this one. digital media ie CD sound has never been good enough for the attuned ear. I would not have a CD in the house
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
DVD provides a clear picture OK the eye can be fooled but not the ear. LP's always wil sound better. But never mind lets spend £100 billion piping TV down broadband fibre optic so we can all sign up for billions of repeated TV shows or hire the latest hollywood garbage for a night
DVD provides a clear picture OK the eye can be fooled but not the ear. LP's always wil sound better. But never mind lets spend £100 billion piping TV down broadband fibre optic so we can all sign up for billions of repeated TV shows or hire the latest hollywood garbage for a night
Posted by
Guzzo 9 months ago
Perhaps people ought to get out more and start living instead of sitting in front of a computer all the time. Saying that I am off.
Perhaps people ought to get out more and start living instead of sitting in front of a computer all the time. Saying that I am off.
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"Virgin Media is usually very coy with the breakdown of how many customers it has on its various broadband products, the assumption generally though is that people find the £37 a month 20Mbps product too expensive"
That's because its traffic shaped to death, hence nothing like the product the fool people into signing up for.....