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Low take-up of FTTC broadband services frustrating BT
Friday 11 March 2011 11:18:15 by John Hunt

BT Openreach have stated their frustration at the low take up of next-generation fibre-to-the-cabinet (FTTC) technology in Wales despite an intensive advertising campaign promoting BT Infinity to customers. Cardiff is one area that the company has highlighted as seeing poor adoption of the new faster services which it is rolling out through a £2.5bn investment program.

The problem is not limited to just Cardiff, with other enabled areas also seeing low take up. One exception is Whitchurch, one of the areas selected under BT's initial FTTC pilot program, which has seen 7% of premises connect up to the new service.

"Cardiff has been given a head start by Openreach but some fibre-enabled parts of the city are proving to be a bit slow out of the blocks to take up the opportunities fibre presents. With the notable exception of Whitchurch, residents are proving slow to take advantage of the technology on their doorstep and so we are working with the local council to raise awareness and drive demand.

Cities, towns and villages across the UK are clamouring for fibre broadband and look at Cardiff with envy. It would be shame if the city proved reluctant to be a digital leader but we are confident that, with the right encouragement, people will embrace the technology and never look back."

Richard Hall, (NGA Deployment Director for Wales) BT Openreach

BT will be looking to ramp up local awareness through focused marketing in the Cardiff and will be joining forces with Cardiff Council to try and encourage adoption of the new services.

There are various reasons why people may not have opted to take the new services. Many ISP's still don't currently offer FTTC broadband, with BT Retail as the only large operator to do so, and BT may not necessarily be a customers first choice. Our fibre broadband guide offers a quick reference of providers who currently offer FTTC broadband. TalkTalk will be coming on board soon having announced their fibre broadband boost. Some people who are interested may be restricted by contracts tying them to their existing provider, or be put off by higher prices charged by some operators for the faster service.

Of course, there will be those that are just not interested. If current broadband speeds are sufficient to allow people to browse the web, catchup with friends via e-mail and access BBC iPlayer, what advantage will they get by upgrading to the faster products.

This will be disheartening to the 360,000 people who voted in BT's 'Race to Infinity' competition which offered to enable areas where demand could be proved. Only ten areas were selected to be enabled. It must also prove very frustrating for BT to know that in terms of numbers, at least 6.5% of their customer base would be interested in upgrading, but they currently live in areas that can't get it.

Comments

Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Sigh, what a downer. There's people out there with it enabled and orderable and there's people like me that would won't see it for years but would jump at the chance in a flash.

It can't be any cheaper and there's no 300Gb limit anymore.

Hopefully it won't but this might reflect badly on the rest of Wales, if there's no take up in Cardiff will they be as willing to enable FTTC elsewhere?
Posted by WelshBluebird over 6 years ago
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that consumers in Cardiff who want the faster speeds already have the option from Virgin Media and ADSL2+ services (which have a better chance of hitting the max speed due to shorter line lengths).

Perhaps if they tried the roll out in more rural areas, where people don't have any other options for fast broadband, they would see a better uptake?
Posted by timmay over 6 years ago
Cardiff has got VM right?! No need for BT in most areas. Plus LLU so people will be reluctant to move from a decent LLU service back to BT's **** network. It is areas that have very poor broadband currently that demand will be the highest.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@timmay

Spot on.
Posted by themanstan over 6 years ago
They should be targetting the areas where uptake would be good. Such as non-VM suburban areas where line distance results in less than ~3-4Mbp, but cabinet distance is reasonable.
Posted by timmay over 6 years ago
@themanstan There is more than meets they eye here. Yes BT should be enabling areas with very poor speed first. However these areas are often not suitable for FTTC due to the average distance from the cabinets being greater and the number of properties being lower.
Posted by Flapper_MK over 6 years ago
Not in Wales but I'd switch except my ISP doesn't offer it yet even though my area is cabled... Sort it out Sky!
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Yes, that is the main issue here, your right it seems more sense to target areas with very poor speeds, but these can often be the very areas that aren't commercially viable in the first place, so they don't go there.

I think this is a bit of a blow really, if BT have to stand up kit in other areas like this and people don't use it I just wonder how committed they will be to the rest of the rollout?
Posted by jrawle over 6 years ago
I agree with the others, they should target areas that currently have poor speeds. I live in a FTTC area, but already have 14Mb/s from BE. I could double my speed, but it's not worth the extra money. If I'd only been getting 1 or 2Mb/s with ADSL, though, I'd have signed up for Infinity straight away.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
Says it all really. People claim that there's a desperate need for speed. BT roll-out a /cheap as chips/ service. Lack lustre sign-up.

So go on then someone - tell me again how desperately we need NGA.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
Only 5 ISPs so far and people don't want to change email address?
Posted by SheepFarmer over 6 years ago
Cardiff actually does have some very long lines and not all of the exchanges (like the one that feeds Cardiff Bay) has BT's ADSL2. However VM does cover most of the city and I think BT missed the boat there with their fast services. If you wanted a fast connection you went with VM, not BT.

Perhaps they should target areas that haven't already been covered many times over?
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
Looking at cardiff stats its a mainly short line area with heavy VM presence, Perhaps BT only looking at fluency is not so good after all. So pick long line areas and watch takeupp go theough the roof if thats what they want. Shows how short termist they are tho if they moaning so early on about takeup, need to give it at least 5 years to takeoff.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
I wonder why they chose Cardiff in the first place? Surely someone somewhere must have checked there was demand?
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
AndrueC as I stated (a) they not waiting long enoughh, also (b) missed the boat VM beat them to punch, (c) targeted wrong type of area. Even my own area probably would be failure fo rthem now as VM enabled it 14 months ago and have had MASSIVE takeup. Probably only scraps left for BT here now.
Posted by m0aur over 6 years ago
There is also the view that not everyone wants warp-speed broadband.
Many of us on non-LLU 8MB exchanges that are close enough to get 6.5Mb down are happy as we are.
The poor souls right out in the sticks at the end of long lines will be the last to benefit, as they were at the introduction of broadband. It is a maximum take, minimum input world.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
@chrysalis that's fair enough, but if they only go where VM is not that's also not on is it? What about competition, what about people on VM that are fed up with them/may have issues and want to leave but want good speeds?
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
GMan99 it may be expensive buy uo know you are right. There was 2 ways to do this rollout, either (a) do it cheapest way possible, probably doing areas with shorter routes to cabinets so costs were low, however this probably meant upgrading already well served areas, or (b) upgrade problem areas with dodgy lines and go for large impact. eg. 1mbit to 40mbit boost a big WOW factor. Higher cost but also higher takeup at higher retail price. No sub £20 rubbish.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
gman99 yeah I am saying they should purposely avoid VM areas, unless they know its a generally poor performing VM area but even then VM could fix that by carrying out upgrades. VM will go all out to stop customers leaving and that trick usually works, so BT will never undercut VM and still make money. The sell it cheap trick in VM established areas wont work.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
However they chose to do it it would never be quite right.

If they chose the areas that really need it, as you say problem/low speed areas and charged a more realistic price to make it commercially viable in these areas to deploy, they'd be slaughtered.

They'd be accused of cherry picking and also a two tiered pricing, nice and expensive (but fast) for the problem and rural areas and cheaper broadband for people with shorter lines/non problematic areas.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
...cont

Its just a no-win situation. On the whole it will be too expensive to rollout to the people that really need it because the prices charged are peanuts, but what can you do? People in the past have always accused BT of being too expensive, not sure you can say that anymore.

As we've said time and time again, BB in the UK is so cheap it impacts progress, and we are seeing it right here right now. The people that really want and need what FTTC can deliver won't pay the true cost of its provision.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
yep, we are the 2nd cheapest country worldwide (at least developed country) for broadband.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
Ultimately I feel they should have skipped adsl2+ on their wholesale altogether and started FTTC the moment LLU isp's started gaining a foothold, so the first problem is they started way too late, we have people on the likes of BE and sky now not wanting to leave their fast 16mbit or so service for infinity as they dont feel there i senough ebenefit in doing so, but if FTTC existed before these guys joined LLU in the first place it would have been a different story.
Posted by cyberdoyle over 6 years ago
Virgin got there first with faster broadband, so what is the point of putting cabinets there when there are many other areas want them? The cabinets will also be in areas of reasonable adsl. I agree with other commenters. If you want take up you go where the demand is. The final third. Plenty of those in urban areas too.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
sorry for typos, I am used to rushing posts and editing after but cannot edit here.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
It wouldnt surprise me in BT's bizzare way of thinking they enable my area in 2015 or something, way too late and will get low takeup as a result of VM beating them to it. There is still areas ripe for FTTC but BT need to change their way of thinking and stop targeting areas that already have good adsl/cable service.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
The trouble is cyberdoyle whilst it makes sense to give to the people that want/need it, it shouldn't be as clear cut as that, what about competition, without it that also stifles progress. Its like saying BE LLU shouldn't target areas where TalkTalk LLU is, because that area already has access to LLU.
Posted by NilSatisOptimum over 6 years ago
I often thought Bts strategy, in installing FTTC, in areas that had similar, was risky and should have looked at individual areas, rather than this whole approach across the UK.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Your right chrysalis its also down to timing, its almost a perfect storm scenario. I really was expecting a lot of ISP's to jump onto FTTC but its come at the wrong time. A lot of ISP's have already invested heavy in their own DSLAM's for LLU and because of the cut throat market it will probably be a while before they'd paid for it all, along comes FTTC and its even more cost for them so... they sit it out and wait.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
That said TT is on-board all we need now is someone like Sky to take it and I think the domino effect starts, once a few big hitters offer it and you don't your out in the cold if you can't offer those speeds yourself
Posted by pinshot over 6 years ago
As long as Bt keep messing with P2P traffic they can shoo e it where the sun don't shine!
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
As long as it means I get a decent speed I don't mind them messing with traffic that is used by the majority for file sharing of copy written material :)
Posted by mitchja over 6 years ago
What do BT actually expect when they are only installing FTTC is areas that already have higher coverage of cable and LLU??
Posted by herdwick over 6 years ago
areas with cable and LLU tend to be where the people are for one thing, and at higher density for another. They are also the areas where BT's market share is very low and FTTC may be seen as a way to increase market share in Market 3 >
Posted by greemble over 6 years ago
There is another consideration for BT.
It's clear BT want government/EU funding for fibre rollout (just simple economics, cannot really blame BT for it), thus if they roll out fibre to areas that are all ready covered by cable, the take up is going to be low.

BT can therefore state, with figures, that it's simply not viable for them to do this across the whole county - especially as they will then have to allow the competition to use their fibre cables too
- so if the UK wants FTTC/P, subsidies will have to be forthcoming from somewhere.
Posted by tommy45 over 6 years ago
Maybe what bt should of done is just replaced all the copper to street cabs everywhere, replacing the existing archaic network of cables that where never installed with the intention of running fast ADSL services on them,Once this was done they could rent access to the fibre, which would ideally still connect to the isp's own kit at the exchange as it currently does, they of course could also offer their own vdsl services as they also do now, that idea would be available to all eventually,
Posted by tommy45 over 6 years ago
Then once that's in place offer ftth connections to those who want it to start with ,but eventually roll that out on a national scale too, not the way they have gone about it so far,as the existing copper cables in some places will be nearing their life span,& be in need of replacement
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Not sure what you mean Tommy, replace the copper to street cabs everywhere, with what? Fibre?? that's a full FTTH rollout and deemed too expensive, they can't even self fund a FTTC rollout to all premises nevermind FTTH

If they replaced the copper cable to the home VDSL is out of the window its straight FTTH
Posted by tommy45 over 6 years ago
Well funds wouldn't be an issue if they had for the past decade been actively replacing copper with fiber across the country, instead of waiting until a recession to start doing it,
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
lol, your well up for simplifying things are you? I believe they estimated a full FTTH rollout would cost them over £26 billion and they've been in debt for the last 10yrs with £16 billion owed so... Hmmmm we are in debt 16billion, lets borrow another 26 on top eh? Sorry but that's not how you run a business and looking at Cardiff people don't even want FTTC never mind FTTH
Posted by jtthedevil over 6 years ago
I mentioned this well over a year ago when the FTTC was being rolled out in N Ireland. Most of the cabinets upgraded where in the town, one beside where I used to live that was getting 6.5mb. A lot of people on here poo-pooed my idea that areas that need a boost would have a higher uptake than areas where people are getting cheap, low cost speeds, sufficient for their everyday needs. Surely a higher uptake offsets the higher cost of putting it in?
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
^
I guess it depends really, say its a small exchange with only a small amount of customers hanging off the cabs to make it all FTTC ready will be expensive but even if all of the customers jumped on board it could take forever to recover the costs due to the low numbers in the area. As chrysalis says maybe its too early to judge Cardiff, but.. maybe this will make BT rethink the priority areas of the rollout, who knows
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
In terms of NI I believe there has been much more success there
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
This is why there has been slow take up:

BT Infinity Sky
1.Broadband £28.00 £7.50
2.Line Rental +
Unlimited Calls £13.60 £16.25

Total £41.60 £23.75

Saving with Sky £17.85

So BT, reduce the price and I will join.

Signed
A happy Sky customer living in Cardiff.
Posted by jtthedevil over 6 years ago
In NI there has probably been more of a take up as there is no other options outside of Belfast and Derry who have VM. The FTTC rollout is in a lot of exchanges where talktalk, Sky etc didn't have a presence, so these people would have already been paying high prices. Its easier to justify a speed increase if the comparison in cost is less.
Posted by jtthedevil over 6 years ago
Anyone know when the minimum speed is going to be reduced to 5mb? Surely that would encompass a larger footprint encouraging more people to upgrade. I would pay for fibre to even get an increase to 3 or 4mb from the 0.5mb i'm currently on, but I won't be offered it under the current (and possibly future) minimum speed requirements.
Posted by lunarjetman over 6 years ago
So they're prioritising areas where there is already healthy competition, they're enabling a fraction of the cabinets in those areas, they're not competitive on price and switching providers is still enough of a PITA to deter people.

And then they complain that only a small fraction of the small fraction that can actually buy the damn service are buying it.

HINT: people on crap connections will place a higher value on a good connection than people who already have access to a choice of good connections.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
Just phoned BT and said I would switch right now from Sky to BT Infinity Unlimited Broadband and Calls if they could keep the broadband at 20 p/month for 18 months rather than the costly £28. The chap said no, so there we have it, I tried to give them my custom.
Posted by zyborg47 over 6 years ago
I think Bt thought they would take customers away from Virgin, and it failed. If we had FTTC here I am sure some people would go for it, if the price is right, but if Bt does as good a job with it as they do with their so called 21CN system, then I think I would leave well alone

I get 4Megabits, that is fast enough for what I want and do, so why pay more?

Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
saltyzip - must try that with Sainsburys.

Are Sky going with FTTC?
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@salty:There you have it indeed. Punter claims they want faster speeds. Won't pay for them. Case closed.

What next? I know. Pop in to my local Porsche dealer and tell them I'll buy a car as long as it costs less than £10k.

Yeah. That seems sensible, doesn't it?
Posted by prlzx over 6 years ago
re: "will be joining forces with Cardiff Council to try and encourage adoption of the new services"

Quick note that it's not Cardiff's role to help a retail arm of BT market its product, in fact they would not normally be allowed to endorse a given supplier.

However they can help promote NGA technologies (e.g. fibre) generically.
Posted by orly2 over 6 years ago
Seem to recall it took a few years for the ADSL products to get sufficient reach and pricing before it started to take off.

Will be the same thing with FTTC/P. Would be interesting to see some sort of comparison with areas in N. Ireland as an example. Lots of the coverage area here is devoid of anything related to Virgin.

Also to the people talking about the price. It's only more expensive if you choose to not use BT themselves. If you did, it's the same price as ADSL products.
Posted by orly2 over 6 years ago
@Saltyzip, how much is your sky TV subscription. Have to include that in the costings as you don't get 7.50 broadband without it.

And which BT Infinity option is 28 quid?
Posted by Aaron_01 over 6 years ago
BT, put some cabinets in rural areas and we'll lessen your frustrations. Thanks.
Posted by krazykizza over 6 years ago
Nothing to date is going on at the Caxton exchange. Over two months in and there be no site surveys.
Posted by Koppo over 6 years ago
Hi BT. If our South Wales cousins don't want it, how about you rip it out, stick it in a few vans and pop it in all those exchanges in North Wales where you haven't even bothered converting to 21cn. We'll use it, we'll give you our money!

ps. Virgin Media and all those LLU operators that people in South Wales are obviously very happy with say: LOL BT, LMFAO.
Posted by uniquename over 6 years ago
"Posted by jtthedevil about 2 hours ago
Anyone know when the minimum speed is going to be reduced to 5mb? ...."

It is already available. See the list on http://www.robertos.me.uk/html/isps_offering_fttc.html

I believe BT Total Broadband also offer it if you can get to the right place to ask. It is Option 3 with Fibre or something like that. They don't call it Infinity as that has to look good for speeds, ie 15+Mbps.
Posted by uniquename over 6 years ago
"Posted by Somerset about 9 hours ago
Only 5 ISPs so far and people don't want to change email address?"

Where do you get only five from? See the list link in my previous comment, or the thinkbroadband list. As for email address changes, that's irrelevant to this issue - it potentially applies to any migration.
Posted by jumpmum over 6 years ago
I live in Cardiff and the major difference between Whitchurch and the other exchanges is that they targetted publicity in Whitchurch. Even had a shop in the shopping centre for a time. The other areas have not even had a door drop! Some like Llantwit Major are rural with no VM. The worst area within Cardiff, Roath exchange has NOT been covered, most people there are lucky to get 1Mb and would jump at the chance for 15Mb. (Some are not covered by VM!)
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
@orly2
"And which BT Infinity option is 28 quid?"
The Unlimited with Broadband and Calls one, which is basically the same as my Sky package.

You notice they do not compare their prices with Sky on the website, only Virgin and Talk Talk, I wonder why.
Posted by jtthedevil over 6 years ago
@uniquename.

Thanks for that. I was with ADSL24 before and only went to talktalk for the cheaper package. Hopefully i'll see a migration in the near future.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
@orly2
And my Sky TV subscription is £34.75, Entertainment pack (£24.50), Sky HD Pack (£10.25). So you could say I have to pay £17 more, but as a bundle that's a great deal. The quality in TV choice is the main priority for the family, the cheap broadband is a bonus.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago

@AndrueC If BT want to coax people on mass to Infinity, they need more of an incentive to break up peoples current bundles. I am not moving from SkyTV to BTVision, so BTs BB package appears expensive in isolation, even with line Rental too.
VirginTV offering is also better than BTvision, so they aren’t going to get Virgin customers switching either. The only people switching to Infinity are likely to be existing BT customers, those who don’t have TV bundles(TalkTalk) and those that don’t mind paying the premium. No surprise to me that there is limited take up, everyone is watching the pennies.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
@Somerset Sky will be offering FTTC, currently in trial with Sky personnel only, but I don't expect it being offered to the joe public for 6 to 12 months at least, perhaps longer if BTs frustration continues. This tells them, there is no incentive for Sky to roll it out either, it will only change when IPTV takes off.
Posted by megamast over 6 years ago
Serves BT right!
Their method of deciding which areas to next upgrade if seriously flawed.
What a stupid idea to install in areas that already provide high speed cable. Surely any idiot could see if they installed in areas with normal adsl they would have the market cornered, there would be no competition. We spent a considerable sum of our own money and got within a few of the top 10. I now hear we are unlikely to ever get it as we are seen as an uneconomic exchange like the rest of Shropshire!

Log live Virgin our next port of call.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
salty how will IPTV take off without the means to run it?
Posted by GeorgeLloyd over 6 years ago
With some ISP's charging £12 over and above the usual charge that's a lot extra just to download a bit faster.
Posted by russianmonkey over 6 years ago
Megamast, if BT cornered all the areas with small competition making them a sole operator, then they'd have OfCom breathing down their necks again over market share.
Posted by Gamerwillz over 6 years ago
I think people are ignoring it because Cardiff already had great speeds. They should target rural areas as it will be very attractive to them.
Posted by TimGausdenH over 6 years ago
I am a BT customer paying for an "up to" 20Mb service and getting 1.4Mb. BT has always been my choice of ISP. My exchange was listed six months ago as having FTTC BT Infinity and every time I enquire if my phone can receive BT Infinity I get told "No, its not available to you". If customers who do want to take up BT Infinity are being fobbed off with "your street's cabinet is not worth connecting" it is no wonder the take up is so slow.
Posted by TimGausdenH over 6 years ago
I have always been loyal to BT but my patience is wearing out. The BT Infinity TV ads make my blood boil! Last week I checked out what Virgin Media's service was past my door. Apparently I can get 10Mb, 30Mb or 50Mb from Virgin immediately and for less than BT are currently charging me. A few more Infinity ads on the TV to provoke me and I will end up switching away from BT.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
@GMAN99 IPTV is a chicken and egg situation. You need the IPTV services in order to entice people to want faster downloads. We don't have a netflix in this country and the likes of iPlayer can stream reasonable quality HD content to you if you have a 4 Megabit connection. For those people on 8 Megabit or more ADSL+ connections, there is little to entice them to pay the substantial premium for BT Infinity.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
When Sky release their FTTC offering, you can be sure their Sky Active+ service will start offering 1080p streaming content exclusively to FFTC broadband users. So that will be the carrot to entice people to pay the premium and upgrade from ADSL. Sky are very good at marketing.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@Tim:Why the loyalty? Honestly - do they send you birthday cards and Christmas cards?

Seriously. If VM are offering want you want right now then subscribe. No company gives a monkey's about your loyalty.
Posted by russianmonkey over 6 years ago
@saltyzip: no they won't. Like other services, it'll be heavily compressed.

Where I am in dundee, I'm only getting about 4mb on standard broadband but there is Virgin here as well.
Posted by saltyzip over 6 years ago
@russianmonkey I only said it would be 1080p. You should in theory just about be able to stream a full HD uncompressed movie with FTTC at 35 megabit sync, as long as there was nothing throttling your connection, but its a bit too close for comfort and not something the BBC or Sky could possibly offer at the moment.
Posted by themanstan over 6 years ago
Just to point out that VM didn't do a good job Rolling out their network. It was telewest and NTL, who bankrupted themselves to get as far as they did. Asking BT to do a national FTTH rollout would be foolish. And the reason why VM doesn't expand its network much is debt too.
Posted by offcs over 6 years ago
Maybe now that VM know that if they are in areas where BT have infinity, they will still have lots of customers, they might try increasing their footprint. I don;t care who gives me a faster service really.
Posted by rogerneal over 6 years ago
I live in Maidenhead. OpenReach assure my house is connected to a FTTC and have given me the number of that cabinet. BT still tell me they have no timetable for connecting my property to FTTC, and despite asking them to check this, have confirmed their initial statement. My immediate neighbour is connected to infinity and tells me that the connection offer from BT appeared for one day only on their website.
Could this sort of problem explain the low take-up?
Posted by mike41 over 6 years ago
i'm told that fibre is coming to a cabinet across the street, and I've already had someone trying to flog me Infinity. My copper line gives average 4.4mb which is adequate for my needs, I don't bother with most of the ancient rubbish on Freeview so I don't want another ?? channels of ancient rubbish on Infinity even if it was free. Obviously thousands feel the same way, hence low takeup. Sympathies to those who do want higher speeds and can't get them: as ever, BT or any ISP can't please all the people all the time.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
You don't need 35Mb/s to view HD video. Most Sky channels broadcast around 12Mb/s and most people consider that to be quite satisfactory. There's not a lot of difference between Sky and a BluRay disc.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
Problem is they almost completely mimic VM's coverage, bad idea when you have a well established competitor with a better product(s).

Then you have people who are already happy with LLU, just can't be bothered to move or are in contract.
Posted by fastman over 6 years ago
exchanges takes about a year from announcement to deployment - checl www.openreach.co.uk microsite to give RFS date for your exchange (Assuming announced)
Posted by litesp33d over 6 years ago
Wasn't Cardiff where BT's 'failed' 21CN project was due to be implemented.
Everything BT does has other implications which will be what is best for BT long term. Given that BT can seemingly create packages out of thin air that are priced below cost when they want to, if the take up in the area is low it is because BT want it that way. Otherwise they could buy a welsh ISP and trade below cost just like they did a Yorkshire one.
Posted by madreddog over 6 years ago
Why couldn't BT Openreach have done a poll to everyone BEFORE deciding where to roll out FTTC? A simple question..'If FTTC broadband was available in your area, would you use it?' Maybe that way it might end up going to the right places and not ending up like an unwanted Christmas gift!
Posted by rickw over 6 years ago
It's a pricing issue pure and simple IMHO.

As has been pointed out here most people are happy with their 8megs or whatever speed.

There must be something wrong with the pricing policy since TalkTalk won't give me a date for changing to FTTC and I have a working cabinet just across the road. BT say FTTC is available TT say no idea when.

Also on a practical note I wonder how many will be disappointed. My daughter has 40meg on offer and the cab is literally opposite her house. My test speed is 37megs and the cab only a tiny bit further. Not much I grant you but enough to wonder..........
Posted by numenius over 6 years ago
As someone trying to run an online business for a living from an area where I get 1.5 on a very, very, good day, I'd swap my back teeth for this! Currently I figure waiting for pages to lad adds about an hour to my days work! Shame I'm at the exact oppostite end of the country from Wales!
Posted by Frank22 over 6 years ago
I want FTTC. I have a slow connection (2mbps during a good day and 0.5Mbps during rain). No cable avail here. Soon I should get FTTC says the BT technician (helpful man trying to keep my connection going). In contrast, phoning BT is VERY unhelpful. Ask about when FTTC is avail and no one knows. Ask if my line will be FTTC enabled. They dont know!
BT needs to be able to tell when FTTC can be installed.
I subscribed to receiving emails from Infinity. The few emails I received are not telling me anything. I returned an email to this address and I rcvd a call! A waste of time this call.
Posted by RAConnell over 6 years ago
Maybe if BT had prioritised the more affluent areas in the SE rather than pandering to the sticks they might have gained greater FFTC inroads earlier. As BE provides me with a 3x faster service than did BT I might think twice about going back to BT FFTC particulazrly as BT's customer service is abysmal.
Posted by KarlAustin over 6 years ago
I wouldn't call 21CN a failed experiment, no 21CN = no FTTC & no FTTH.
Posted by rogerneal over 6 years ago
As I commented above, BT do not seem to know what's happening in their own organisation. I quote from the checker just this morning; "BT Infinity is not currently due to be rolled out in your area". Yet next door in a cul de sac of 10 houses has infinity and OpenReach have confirmed the cabinet details and assured me it's active.
BT sales refuse to discuss the matter; what can I do next?
Posted by Oddball over 6 years ago
My father is on BT Infinity in the small village of Iwade. It's the only way he could get good speeds. However being a pensioner he could not afford the 300GB limit version (Now uncapped) and is instead on option 1.
Posted by Oddball over 6 years ago
The trouble is he is always panicking now about his data limit of 40GB per month and is always bothering me with it. He is also stuck on a long contract with BT. I would avoid BT like the plague normally but it was his only option. Hopefully they will put the limit up a bit now they have uncapped the more expensive package. Offering these speeds is all well and fine but it's a bit silly having such restrictive caps as you can use it all up within a few days if not careful (Bit of Youtube, gaming etc). Especially if you have a family.
Posted by clivewaters over 6 years ago
Stupid people. I am in South West London and would love to get onto Infinity, but even though I am in an area where there are loads of people with the budget to take it up, we still have no indication of when Wandsworth will get a service. Very good sales plan!!! Whoever does their planning needs to be kicked squarely in between the legs.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Oddball - you get what you can pay for. If the cap isn't enough pay more, if you can't pay more then sorry :(
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
Also remember people, BT FTTC is available via other providers!

@numenius

Line length? ISP?
Posted by orly2 over 6 years ago
Some real numpties on this thread.

You'd have thought BT had just abandoned people to never having FTTC/P despite it being very early days in the roll out. If you look at the maps you see this clear as day.

Fact is this is a money business so BT will put it where it's likely to make the most money to start with. That means dense populations with multiple cabinets i.e Cities.
Posted by orly2 over 6 years ago
It's not that BT exclusively targets areas with VM. Theres a guy on the forums right now crying that FTTC isn't in the middle of Birmingham right this second even though VM are.

How can BT win? Everyone will cry that it isn't fast enough and then when they install it somewhere people complain it's the wrong place.

http://maps.thinkbroadband.com/#!lat=53.55225498361659&lng=-3.625487160156242&zoom=6&type=terrain&exchanges%5Bfttc%5D=true
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
@Oddball, if the limit of 40Gb is too low for your usage, you don't pick that package. Simples
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
clivewaters - WANDSWORTH LSWAN FTTC Greater London Sep 2011
Posted by russianmonkey over 6 years ago
People, people.

Can we please clear this up.

BT OpenReach - They decide the deployment of fibre and tell ISPs what dates are for enablement of which areas.

BT Retail - Customer facing end, they DON'T have access to OpenReach data directly so can't really tell when they are due to switch an area on.

</rant>
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
jumpmum yep. "The worst area within Cardiff, Roath exchange has NOT been covered," eaxactly the point I was making, they skip an area where it would have most impact. Also to herdwick thats not the case either, apparently the reason BT have targeted affluent areas is current higher takeup of adsl.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
I would hazard a guess poorer people will rely on the internet more (given it saves cash on various things and is used for illegal downloads), it seems to me the best rollout plan is the exact opposite of what BT have been doing. (a) target poor areas, (b) target long line areas, (c) target areas where no VM presence (this has been done but I dont think specifically). After that charge a premium as people in those areas have no high speed alternative.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
to orly2, I guess you have not been following the rollout? at least 10 cities are barely touched by it especially in the east above london. This rollout has also picked quite a few low populated areas. Its defenitly not been following a population density pattern.
Posted by orly2 over 6 years ago
Been following it very closely chrysalis.

You can too. All you have to do is look at the maps from this very site which I linked to. You can see it's clustered around London, Birmingham/Midlands, Manchester up to Leeds and a few in the North East. Obviously in Scotland it's around Edinburgh and Scotland
Posted by orly2 over 6 years ago
So we're about a year into this new roll out and you can see how it's progressing. N.Ireland is a special case as it's paid for differently.

Compare this map: http://maps.thinkbroadband.com/#!lat=53.55225498361659&lng=-3.625487160156242&zoom=6&type=terrain&exchanges%5Bfttc%5D=true

To this one from about 2.5 years into the ADSL rollout: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/maps/llu/62

It's pretty similar.

BT will look at population, the layout of cabinets (feasibility), ADSL take up, demographics, VM availability or a mixture of these and get a picture of where it likely to succeed early on.
Posted by deana over 6 years ago
Work on my exchange started in sept last year, rather than upgrading the cabs farthest away from the exchange first, allowing those with 2mb< upgrade first, they have upgraded the closest!
My RFS date on my cab is now sept11 dispute a new box already installed, I hope that see there mistakes and don't assume that because closer to the exchange the take up has been so low, that noone round here wants it, through family and friends in the area I know more than 10+ houses on my cab are itching to order.
Someone call the roflcopter, bt seem to be confusing there anus from there antecubital fossa.
Posted by chris6273 over 6 years ago
IF BT roll out FTTC to rural locations where there is LESS choice of providers, then surely they should get MORE people signing up for FTTC?
Posted by BBFishbone over 6 years ago
I live in Paulton, Sumerset. In Oct 2010 BT's number checker said that I would be able to apply for Infinity by 31 Dec 2010.This was great news as in a home with 5 computers, bandwidth causes a big problem!! Then in Dec it suddenly changed the date to 31 March 2011.This was bad news to me and all I could do was wait! I repeated the number checker yesterday (16 March) and the date has now been changed to 30 June 2011. From been well excited, I am now just angry & disappointed!! If this is the way BT treats its customers I can quite understand why people are slow to take up there products.
Posted by taureans over 6 years ago
Im in Hindolveston Norfolk, we came in 4 position in Norfolk in the RTI. I have emailed various BT members im told there are no plans to upgrade the Melton Constable exchange even though we polled well. BT have announced they will be enabling Sherringham, Dereham although they polled few votes, so the point was? the people who need faster speeds rural,long distances from the exchange are clearly being left out. The people of my village are desperate for improved services along with many others. Get with the programme BT and start looking at the facts and your own poll.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
orly2 so what you really mean is they have concentrated on certian parts of the countries where the biggest cities are, however there is many exchanges around those areas that are not particuly highly populated and even market 1,2 getting enabled. Over cities in different parts of the country.
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