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Virgin Media to increase upload speeds to 5Mbps and introduce traffic management
Thursday 30 September 2010 11:22:16 by Sebastien Lahtinen

The web 2.0 phenomenon of user generated content means that more users will be looking to upload content to the Internet over their broadband connections. Whilst products are generally advertised based on the headline 'up to' download speeds, upload speeds are often overlooked.

Virgin Media has today announced it will be upgrading all its cable broadband packages to at least double the upload speeds. Customers on its cheapest package will see an increase from 512Kbps to 1Mbps whilst those on its XXL 'up to 50 meg' service will see an increase from 1.5Mbps to 5Mbps, setting a new standard for broadband services. Customers will not be required to sign a new contract and will receive the upgrade as soon as their area is enabled. Upload speeds of 5Mbps will significantly change what consumers are able to do, such as using some high definition video conferencing platforms.

"We're once again pushing the boundaries of UK broadband with a true next generation broadband service that vastly outperforms struggling DSL-based services. With the huge growth in social networks these new upload speeds will help Virgin Media customers share their most precious moments and keep up with what friends and families are up to, whether it’s uploading to YouTube or even hosting a live videochat to show off baby’s first steps in high-definition."

Jon James, executive director of broadband, Virgin Media

The upgrade will also involve rolling out traffic management over the platform, something its '50 meg' XXL users have not yet been subjected to. This will prioritise 'real-time' traffic such as video streaming over peer-to-peer and newsgroups activity to attempt to ensure all users get a good experience. At least 75% of network resources will be reserved for time-sensitive traffic. The top 5% of users may find their service slows down at peak times to ensure the remaining 95% receive a good service. This means heavy uploaders on the XXL package may find their upload speeds cut to 1.75Mbps, which is nevertheless faster than the 1.5Mbps they receive at the moment without traffic shaping.

Product Download Current Upload New Upload
M 'up to 10 meg' 512 Kbps 1 Mbps
L 'up to 10 meg' 512 Kbps 1 Mbps
XL 'up to 20 meg' 768 Kbps 2 Mbps
XXL 'up to 50 meg' 1.5 Mbps 5 Mbps

The first areas to receive faster upload speeds will be Enfield, Huddersfield, Sutton Coldfield and Warwick.

Traffic management of some sort was inevitable, and Virgin's increase of upload speeds does appear to offset the effect on the heaviest users. The move seeks to firm up Virgin's premium position in the UK broadband market for offering one of the fastest possible services available to over half of the country.

Comments

Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
:) STM on 50Mb... I knew it would happen.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
seb the url you linked says nothing about traffic shaping, only STM. So without proof you have written a very misleading article. Also the linked article still shows the 50meg as having no STM.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-faster-uploads.html for the STM on 50M upstream.

The link most certainly mentions shaping under the 'File sharing' section.
Posted by pete_thomson over 6 years ago
@Gman99. Virgin always said that STM would be introduced to 50Mb. Expectations were that this would happen once the 50Mb rollout had been completed but that passed without a mention. Now the STM has been annouced and it affects only upload speeds, not downloads, so this would keep a lot of people happy.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Pete, its downloads and upload isn't it? "You will, of course, still be able to use these services, but downloads and uploads will take longer during these peak periods." I just seem to remember a lot of people saying STM would never happen on 50Mb that's all.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Perhaps I'm missing something but this seems to leave Virgin at something of a disadvantage and still playing catchup with FTTC/P in terms of upload speeds and pricing.

Looks like they will be under severe pressure anywhere FTTC/P is available, which must be some 2.5m+ properties now if the 100k per week rollout is being maintained.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
I understand the new caps for upload, they're not too bad being a 50mbit user, even when capped we're slightly faster than before, but 6000Mb is not too shabby, I do a lot of my main uploading during the day anyway, thank you remote desktop :)

But this traffic shaping thing, could do with more info on that to be honest.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
LMAO at the BT fanboys that cant read or do maths (no shocker there)... Its upload speed only that gets affected, only on new 5Mb services it affects and even when in force is only throttled back to what the the old (APPROX, it still goes a bit faster) 1.5Mb uprate was anyway LOL... Its not even really worth mentioning, hardly traffic management when even under the worst circumstances you still get your original package speeds LOL How very typical of this site not to look at it in detail first and the BT fanboys to follow...
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
... Well done to pete_thomson and anon123456 though that tried to educate the stupid people. They didnt listen to you both obviously but atleast you tried.... Ooooo no its traffic management that gives you better speeds thatn before.... Oh and yep obviously the biggest BT fan was missing something.... Ability to calculate figures and read AGAIN
Oh and BTW to the same BT fan.... Feb 2011 100Mb down from virgin and 10Mb up, free upgrade for those that take this new 50/5Mb service. (Thats insider knowledge BTW) FTTC PWND!
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
LMAO @ BT Haters who don't read being too busy looking for some reason to call people 'fanboys'.

The protocol based shaping applies upstream and downstream and it is that which the story is referring to - note the rest of the paragraph discussing prioritisation of traffic.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
I don't think they're talking about the data limits, there is some kind of traffic priority on top of this which will throttle back P2P and Newsgroups.

Who knows what actual speeds will be like during peak times for upload if this is in effect, it might not even be possible to break 6000mb in 5 hours on the 50mbit using P2P if traffic isnt hitting max speed. We'll just have to wait and see.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
In other news Carpetburn the 100Mbps isn't a free upgrade it's a brand new tier - it's already in the provisioning system as XXXL. It's also going to start rolling out this year.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Wait..I thought the 100/10 connection was not being planned as a free upgrade for 50mbit users?

God I hope that's true, short on cash at the moment!
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Oh CB.... I can read can you? Its Virgin that have not explained this properly. This page:- http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.html states its both up and down "You will, of course, still be able to use these services, but downloads and uploads will take longer during these peak periods. "
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
...cont and then on this page:- http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-faster-uploads.html it shows as upload only. So.. which do you believe?
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
They are different things GMAN.

It's both introducing STM to upstream only on 50Mbps service and introducing protocol based shaping to all tiers upstream and downstream.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Ok got ya, so there's a "no matter what you are uploading" limit on the 50Mb package at peak times and an upload limit for p2p on all packages during peak hours.

@CB its STM plain and simple I don't care what the criteria or throttle back is its STM so.. no more "The 50Mb package isn't traffic managed" boasts ;)
Posted by rasczak over 6 years ago
Carpetburn is back and wrong again. Read the article, and link to Virgin's site, and you will see that on 50/5 connections, downstream has throttling. The throttling is based on usage type rather than amount, as for the other options, and doesn't explicitly say what the throttle speed will be, but there is still a throttle.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Correct - STM and the protocol shaping are separate things and will run simultaneously.

All tiers are bidirectionally shaped, 50Mbps has STM on upstream only.

It's perfectly reasonable IMHO, not that MHO matters that much :)
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
:) Premature commentation as usual, you need to slow down CB
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
We don't yet know how much this will actually affect the connection speed though, during the day I get full upload speed and slightly inconsistent download which is generally between 25-50mbit

Evenings is actually faster, I get full 1.5/50mbit when I get home from work. So I question how saturated their 50mbit network is anyway, we may not see traffic shaping make a big dent if they do it right.

I do know VM users are starved for upload like everyone else and if they let it P2P will eat away at all of the upload capacity of the network.

Going to have to wait and see.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
@Dixi, The changes seem fair to me, although I'm sure the net neutrality followers won't be too happy.
Posted by jrawle over 6 years ago
@anon123456: when they refer to the "top 5%" of users having their speed throttled, that almost certainly means data limits. A few years ago when they introduced traffic management, they said it would only affect the top 5%, but that was because their statistics showed 95% of people used under 300MB per day.
Posted by jrawle over 6 years ago
...So they introduced a measly cap of 300MB, after which the connection became painfully slow. That's one of the many reasons I left them. Don't think "top 5%" means you'll never be affected. A large number of updates to your OS could mean slow browsing for the rest of the day.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Oh CB.... I can read can you? Its Virgin that have not explained this properly. This page:- http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.html states its both up and down "You will, of course, still be able to use these services, but downloads and uploads will take longer during these peak periods. "

My god you and the BT bots are idiots... that page clear says XXL AKA the 50Mb/5Mb product only has throttles on the UPSTREAM, there is no downstream throttles.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
The upstream throttle on the new 5Mb upload is 65% max which equates to it running at 1.75Mb when throttled, which is still faster than the current 1.5Mb max uprates.
The Packages which have downstream throttles are S, M, L, XL which are 2Mb, 10Mb and 20Mb speeds (there are 2 10Mb packages (M and L) people still get, an older package and a newer one which came in late 2009).
The note about WE MAY slow FILE SHARING, has always been there in their terms and conditions on all packages, just you morons never read them. They dont throttle 50Mb downstreams.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
The 100Mb product will be available throughout Virgin areas by feb 2011. Those that take the new (IE new customers) 50/5 service will get the upgrade, those still on 50/1.5 and regraded to 50/5 for free right now. 10Mb products will be phased out, customers will be put on 20Mb. Thus solving the messy situation there is at the moment with 2 different tier 10Mb products. Expected price for 100Mb is £35-40 (thats for just broadband, cheaper for package deals)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
I mentioned ages back (around feb this year) 50Mb and 5Mb uprates were coming......... IM RIGHT....... I also mentioned ages ago the new top package will be 100Mb/10Mb and 10MB down product will be phased out, come feb 2011 ill be back to say IM RIGHT AGAIN! BT bots peddle your nonsense, ill take the insider knowledge thats been 100% accurate so far
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
I wasn't aware of any P2P traffic shaping that's happening right now, or ever seen it on their website for that matter...are you sure that's something they've always had?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
^^^ Always been in the terms anon123456, but never implemented on 50Mb products, and never likely to be. There more for them to cover their own backside incase the network ever becomes 99% or something daft flooded with P2P....... There are no default downstream throttles on 50Mb like the BT morons are spouting.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Well their latest announcement specifically mentions traffic shaping for all of their connections, something about 75% of the network capacity reserved for time sensitive protocols.

The way they word it sounds like it's new, I can only speak from experience with the 50mbit and say I've never felt any throttling.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"...I can only speak from experience with the 50mbit and say I've never felt any throttling."
You are never likely to either, look at the facts, if network capacity was an issue why are they throttling upstream (which we all agree they are) to a rate which is faster than the upspeed on the 50Mb package used to be? Makes no sense, we have capacity issues so lets give people more speed even when throttled? The P2P quote is there for them to cover their own backside, nothing more. In reality highly unlikely if you never saw P2P throttles you suddenly will.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Wouldnt achieve anything... Slow your downstream on P2P due to network capacity but allow you to upload it faster than you were previously.... Err i dont think so. Some just cant think logically though ;)
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Good god your so childish CB, can't you have an adult discussion without resorting to child like antics?

It quite clearly states:-


File sharing

At peak times we also slow down the speed of file sharing traffic – that's services like Limewire, Gnutella, BitTorrent and Newsgroup (Usenet) traffic. You will, of course, still be able to use these services, but downloads and uploads will take longer during these peak periods.

If you can't understand that "downloads and uploads" means "downloads and uploads" then I'm not sure what to say.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Interesting, well I guess we'll see. I'll definitely post on the forums when my upload is increased.
Posted by Legolash2o over 6 years ago
I think this is good, even this traffic management, you should download your stuff at night time anyway.

There is a limit though and Virgin have not gone over the top.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
That paragraph has always been in their terms and traffic management GMAN99......
That link (IE http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.html) hasnt altered in some time, that page has always been there, whack that link into google if you dont believe me and see forum discussions on various sites that have previously mentioned it. An example is here... http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1406343
6th post down, which was posted back in 2009.... Virgin on 50Mb didnt throttle P2P then even though that statement was still on that page and they wont throttle it now.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"If you can't understand that "downloads and uploads" means "downloads and uploads" then I'm not sure what to say."

If you cant understand that statement has always been there and 50Mb has never had throttles despite what it may state (UNLESS you are calling the poster anon123456 a liar also who has experienced the service) then i know exactly what to say to you, but i wont... Because the insult wouldnt sink in anyway. They dont throttle 50Mb downrates, never have despite what that page states.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Traffic managment on downstream is for 2, 10 and 20Mb products...... Thats why on this page....
http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-policy.html it mentions P2P throttles, but has N/A in all the 50Mb columns..... and also why on this page...
http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-faster-uploads.html it has been altered and now mentions UPSTREAM is throttled but downstream still is NOT for anything on 50Mb. Its very simple to follow a chart, unless you are a BT dribbling fanatic of course.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
N/A = Not Applicable..... Just like your arguement! If anything is throttled they mention it in their charts, thats why they now mention the UPSTREAM gets throttled but DOWNSTREAM does NOT.... Are you following yet? No of course you aint :rolleyes, big sigh, shakes head, mutters despair for you:
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
I'll refer you back to my first comment:-

":) STM on 50Mb... I knew it would happen. "

It's STM'd
Posted by Legolash2o over 6 years ago
I confirm what carpetburn has said only upload gets throttled after 6GB.
Posted by Legolash2o over 6 years ago
throttled for 5 hours...
Posted by Legolash2o over 6 years ago
http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-faster-uploads.html
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
The 50mbit network is separate from everything else though right? It could be the case that throttling system is in place on the 50mbit service but has never seen significant congestion for it to be active, after all I do get 50mbit most of the time anyway...

So what do the latest rumours say about 100mbit, are the existing 50mbit users getting bumped to 100 for free or not? If the service will be rumoured £40 then thats what I pay for my 50 now anyway...
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Lego I'm not saying otherwise. I said the 50Mb product is now STM'd (it is) and the file sharing restrictions are up and down. The second page here:- http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-faster-uploads.html states upload only, again I've no problem with that either.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
My query to Pete was about two different things which Dixi pointed out, I was quoting File Sharing, Pete was quoting the new upload restrictions.
Posted by Legolash2o over 6 years ago
Yeah i know, only P2P and Newsgroups are affected so why are people complaining....This upload throttling won't even affect most users at all.

This seems like the only throttling system which seems far in my opinion. At least when you pay for a 50Mb service you get close to 50Mb. Most of us pay for 24Mb and get nowhere near 8Mb. Consider yourself lucky....
Posted by Legolash2o over 6 years ago
seems fair***
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
'Virgin on 50Mb didnt throttle P2P then even though that statement was still on that page and they wont throttle it now.'

Is that from your contact within VM CB, the one who gave you the 100M information?
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Well it's obvious there has never been throttling on 50mbit just from day to day usage, and speeds are still 50mbit on the nose for me.

This suggests that they may have a P2P throttling system in place but is never being triggered because there's always enough capacity.

That is likely to change as 50Mbit becomes more popular, I'm mostly worried about the 20Mbit guys eventually getting an free upgrade to 50Mbit and there being a sharp drop in quality, again only time will tell.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
There will not be a free upgrade from 20 to 50Mbit.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Yeah I've read that a few times, I don't know how long that will last though, hopefully a long time and the 50Mbit network will remain speedy if the take up remains slow.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
The 50M network isn't reserved for 50M, there are 10 and 20M customers on there too. It's the only network that can do 50M but all tiers are on it.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@Dixi "It's the only network that can do 50M"?
I'm hearing about FTTC supporting 100Mb, so watch this space, and obviously FTTP already supports 100Mb+ anyway.

@Anon
I wonder how many will pay £40/month for cable if you can get FTTC with much faster uploads for less?
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
So much for a premium service, this would be enough to make me pick DSL over VM and FTTC anyday...
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
I was referring to it being the only cable network, please take in context that I was answering a query about the two cable networks.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
I was under the impression the 50Mbit network used DOCSIS 3.0 and 10/20 Mbit network was separate DOCSIS 1.1 network, so none of the 10/20Mbit traffic effected the 50Mbit users and vice versa?

Well BTs new FTTC interests me, it depends how the network holds up as to whether it will be worth getting. Previous experience tells me that data transfer over BT has been pretty damn low, I doubt they'll compete with the uncapped VM 50mbit product
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"confirm what carpetburn has said only upload gets throttled after 6GB."

quote"Well it's obvious there has never been throttling on 50mbit just from day to day usage, and speeds are still 50mbit on the nose for me.

This suggests that they may have a P2P throttling system in place but is never being triggered because there's always enough capacity."

And still the regular BT blinkered trio attempt to argue. 50Mb isnt throttled on downstream, that message has always been there (as proven with links)....
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
In the future they may well throttle, but for now and previously despite the website message they dont thottle downstreams on 50Mb at all, BT slurpers though just cant accept its a superior product.

As for FTTC doing 100Mb....... LMFAO it cant even sync at 20Mb for some people, and its rumoured the max it will do with anything near consistancy is 60Mb..... Its a stop gap and frankly shambolic alternative.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
anon, it depends what you want to do with it I guess. As you know BT certainly do shape p2p and there is a FUP on Infinity Option 2 of 300Gb in a month before you get throttled in peak hours.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"I was under the impression the 50Mbit network used DOCSIS 3.0....."

Dont confuse them LOL

quote"Previous experience tells me that data transfer over BT has been pretty damn low, I doubt they'll compete with the uncapped VM 50mbit product"

FTTC wont even sync at full rate for MOST people...... FANBOYS below will deny this, and when the facts are publish (first measures from ofcom of FTTC due around xmas time) and i giggle at them again they will of course dribble some other verbal poop to try to prove they are right.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
What is this Ofcom report you speak of Carpetburn as I'd be very interested to see published sync speeds for FTTC. I assume you've got a copy of these early (re MOST people)
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 6 years ago
If people cannot debate without accussation against others, and personal attacks then the right to comment can be withdrawn.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 6 years ago
On FTTC no-one to my knowledge has ever claimed it will sync at full rate, the full rate for VDSL2 is 100Meg anyway.

If Ofcom can publish data using the same kit as it does for other speed comparisons on FTTC at Christmas it would be interesting. Data on the VM XXL product has been sparse due to levels of takeup, and similar will occur with the higher speed FTTC variants where the price charged is higher than basic broadband product.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
It would be great if Samknows secret sauce could be added as standard to router/modem firmware so we could get accurate independent figures from all ISP's across all packages/products.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"As you know BT certainly do shape p2p and there is a FUP on Infinity Option 2 of 300Gb in a month"

Please show where in the terms and conditions which you sign up to where this mythical 300gig is mentioned. Not some support forum with rumour, hard black and white terms which is all what matters.

quote"What is this Ofcom report you speak of Carpetburn as I'd be very interested to see published sync speeds for FTTC. I assume you've got a copy of these early (re MOST people)"

Hows about you answer my question above first for a change and we sort out those inaccuracys first.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 6 years ago
Of course providers would never do anything that improved the peering to the test server, or ensured a higher priority traffic route.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
@CB I can't. I simply can't which is why your asking me :) All I can show you is what you've seen yourself various posts on the bt forums from Kerry the community manager. They are "apparently" working on ways to better clarify the FUP.

My Ofcom report question has nothing to do with BT's FUP, so if you know details of some up and coming report on sync speeds by Ofcom I'm sure everyone would like to know details (I'm serious I do want to know if stats are available)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"If people cannot debate without accussation against others, and personal attacks then the right to comment can be withdrawn."

Is this aimed at me again? What personal attacks have i made? WHO have i personally attacked? What accusations have i made to any individual? FANBOYS are free to attack me, if people think i mean them PERSONALLY or SPECIFICALLY thats their issue.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
You do realise you really should go through your other news stories here where ive been personally attacked, dont you? Maybe throw some threatening interventionon that way. (PS you should have an email come the end of next week about your PERSONAL attention on myself, you will be rid of me fully once those wheels start to turn and matters are resolved appropriately, you like appropriate, dont you?).
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 6 years ago
The warning is a general one to people who like to accuse others of FANBOY tactics, in fact if a poster is inciting others to carry out personal attacks then that can be viewed as reason enough to suspending commenting abilities.

The comments are a place for comments, not personal attacks, or attempts to goad others into attacks.

If someone feels the comment is aimed at them, then perhaps they need to look at what they are saying in their comments.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@GMAN99 the next round of ofcom speed tests measuring and reports of the testing is due just before xmas, and will include FTTC results. Mentioned in the forums of another well known broadband site this week ;)
Gonna be fun to see its average is about half of claimed MAX speed, that will be a giggle indeed.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"If someone feels the comment is aimed at them, then perhaps they need to look at what they are saying in their comments."

Indeed, funny most dont think i mean them when i refer to FANBOYS do they? The site has thousands of members, doesnt it? It is always the persistant few isnt it which think i mean just them? (All collated of course in a nice folder, you will be sent copies). I havent PERSONALLY aimed that name at any INDIVIDUAL in a looooooong time, just a few assume i mean them INDIVIDUALLY when i use the generic term. Why i have no idea, you would have to ask them.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
CB - Could you please, when you get a moment, answer my question on your source for the comment that VM aren't going to be throttling P2P, etc, on the 50M service?
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Ok, well I look forward to the report as I'd like to know just how many people could be offered speeds of above 40Mb in the future with FTTC
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 6 years ago
Not all comments are read, the comments section is not a fully moderated section.

Thus if people feel that personal attacks are missed then in the first instance they should alert the staff http://www.thinkbroadband.com/about.html has more information in this regard.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Ive been called the four lettered C word on this site, and having just looked that and a few other choice names in other items are still on here... Ive been the subject of abuse via your PM system, i got a sorry and the person went unpunished (another BT fanboy amazingly shock of shocks) Ive also previously reported certain form and news item remarks, again much stronger than the term fanboy aimed directly at me (my username mentioned followed by the insult) AGAIN nothing was done. You dont seem too concerned with them.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Id report it more but as you seem focused on policing me it would probably be futile. Shame accusations started to fly saying i called an individual a FANBOY, when i clearly did not. I draw the line at putting up with that, and rather than bothering your team it will be dealt with as you would say "appropriately". I shouldnt have to report it. It was your accusation i called an individual a fanboy, then banned me from the forums. But you know that already (obviously). Keep telling yaself ya unbiased though wont you LOL i call it libelous.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 6 years ago
As said in the first instance report which news items, and the posters name and then we can then review them.

With 4000+ news items for a limited number of staff to re-read is pretty much impossible. You have the chance to report, I encourage you to use it.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@Dixi
I dont have any source that has confirmed that, as above i mention they may in future throttle. The only thing my source calims is 100/10Mb for all by feb 2011........ 50Mb is not throttled, they may well do it in future and have everyright with that long standing we will throttle p2p axe dangling but they never hanve on 50Mb, currently dont and i dont see it changing over night, unless you have evidence to show otherwise? Whats on the site isnt evidence that statement has been there for must be approaching a year or even longer.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Ive reported swearing, name calling, rule breaking and much more in the past via several email addresses see the site even know it was me complaining.... The individuals involved are randomly punished or not punished depending on who committs the offence....... For the past year ive submitted reports of various users, both those which are obviously hated and also liked personally by staff (including you) and collecting evidence to prove that very fact..... Your latest libelous claim i called an individual a fanboy and banning me is just the cherry to a very big well iced cake.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
I can conclusively show LIKED users that called people choice things such as "twisted" "twat" "tosser" and many other choice words were unpunished and continued to post on the day and days after reports were sent. And i will enjoy showing it.... Ive said too much now, dont want to ruin all the nice suprises for you do i! Oh ive sooo been waiting for my latest unfair banning as you can see.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Its gonna be "appropriately" dealt with this time.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
I'd like to hope that VM take a breath after the 100Mb service and concentrate on expansion I mean if the uptake of 50Mb is as low as has been reported previously what of 100Mb? Its all well and good investing in these speeds but not much good if no-one is buying them. I'm sure people will in the future don't get me wrong but I would have thought more customers would be more important for them.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Well your source it totally wrong about the 100/10 - my area is scheduled to not see 50/5 until June next year at the earliest. 100/10 and 50/5 are planned to complete by December 2011.

You're also wrong about the lack of shaping - 50Mbps is shaped same as every other tier. Sources for that are the guy whose name is on the press release, Asam, along with VM networks.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
I guess we will see come next year. Maybe im wrong and feb is the rollout date rather than a for all date... Ill speak to the person concerned in a couple of weeks (dont think they in the country at the moment) And if 50Mb is throttled why hasnt anon123456 experienced it? Did they just forget about him? Must of forgot my neighbour also who P2Ps quite happily at their full rate (on torrents that can reach 50Mb {or rather the 45Mb their personal max speed} obviously). They P2P at all times of the day and night with no shaping of the speed. Maybe they do it in poopy network coverage areas?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"...Its all well and good investing in these speeds but not much good if no-one is buying them. I'm sure people will in the future don't get me wrong but I would have thought more customers would be more important for them."

Agree in part with that, takeup for Virgin 50Mb and FTTC from BT does seem slower than both companies would ideally like. I think alot of it is price related, too many want everything but want it for under 10 quid, they then beehatch to watchdog when they get cheap rubbish (my that was a yawn inspiring latest talk talk rant they had the other night) ;)
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Yep.. people don't want to pay more. But I would say its more of a problem for Virgin (bear with me) because if your on 20Mb and getting very close then I'm sure many people would be happy to stay on that product as its performing as it should. ADSL customers are a different matter, as we know most don't get anything like the up to speeds advertised so there's more incentive for them to move up if they are getting low speeds now.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
The shaping is in the process of being rolled out. It's done in a way that has no visibility of which tier of service customers are on - it doesn't care.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
So in other words DESPITE the websites statement you were all so eager to point out.......
1) They didnt throttle previously
2) They dont throttle right this minute
3) Its only being "rolled" out even though the site claims its enforced already???

When it happens it happens, they have every right to implement it if they wish, but previously NOPE didnt throttle...... Currently NOPE no throttle...... The future..... Thats anyones guess i still say the 50Mb wont be throttled (well not until the 100Mb arrives and thats the new top dog).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Glad we sorted that..... No throttles, and no evidence they are coming either. Despite the so called site saying they are in force already and certain supporters of other ISPs quickly pointing out the P2P statements on the site which are NOT IN FORCE... hmmm now what was i saying in all the posts oh thats right NO THROTTLE ON DOWNSTREAM.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@GMAN99 Partly agree but i think the issue is just as similar on ADSL. Those that can get GOOD ADSL2+ speeds can get around the 20(ish)Mb (give or take a few Mb) so they are in no hurry for FTTC or Virgin 20/50Mb services... Those with rubbish ADSL speeds either have learned to live with it by now or just cant justify the increase charge. Until now all they needed is a cheapo service as their line performaned poor. They have lived paying the cheapest for so long with no reason to pay more, suddenly having a reason to pay more but deciding you will pay more are 2 seperate matters.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Ah twisting and ignoring. As I said the protocol shaping has no visibility of which tier the customer being throttled is on.

The evidence is it coming is fairly obvious - Virgin have said so both in official announcement and unofficial information.

As a reminder this site said that the shaping was part of the upgrade, not that it was all over the network immediately.

This is accurate, the DPI equipment is in place and configuration to apply the shaping can be done on a per-interface basis.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Well I've already commented that traffic shaping may simply be implimented but never hit the traffic levels enough to trigger the throttling.

They did say on the VM site that it was a certain amount of bandwidth reserved, something like 75%. I've just run another speed test and its flat out 50mbit.

I downloaded about 4.5Gb of torrents today and between all 4 running at the same time the speed was about 5.9 - 6.0 MB/sec which is more or less max give or take some overheads.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Ah twisting and ignoring. As I said the protocol shaping has no visibility of which tier the customer being throttled is on.

The evidence is it coming is fairly obvious...."

What twisting and ignoring? You and others said it was already in place, virgins site say they already do it..... Either they do it right now or dont?? Its POSSIBLY (you dont know) coming, which ive not argued i just doubt it will as it never has, and doesnt currently...... Which is it, make up your mind.
IS THE 50Mb subject to P2P speed throttles or not.... Simple question?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@anon123456....

Yep they dont throttle 50Mb downstreams, its perfectly clear to anyone thats used it. I doubt they are going to either for reasons ive already explained (wouldnt make sense to throttle downstream but let them upload quicker, kinda defeats the purpose lol).... Come next year it will be also be the fastest performing (atleast when it comes to a service available to a significant percentage). Dunno why they cant admit this, im not a Virgin customer and even i can see its the best high speed product out there for now.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@anon123456

4.5gb isn't really enough to be used as an example, it doesn't even get near to the daytime management on the XL product.

On 14Mb DSL I've done 35gb per day, regularly. One months usage allowance in my current location ;)
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
CB - I've already answered your question - ALL tiers, including the upcoming 100/10 service, are subject to P2P / NNTP throttling. It's being deployed at the moment.

Glad to see you changed your mind about Virgin, I remember you spitting fire when I pointed out that my service was good, accused me of using a leased line for traceroutes as I remember.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
otester - you are an advertisement both for pay per GB services and the Digital Economy Act. It's fair to say that your usage isn't really to be used as an example of anything other than someone who downloads stuff just because it's there.
Posted by CaptainHulaHoop over 6 years ago
With regards to FTTC takeup I think in time every customer in enabled areas that are currently on BT will move to FTTC because it basically costs the same, I now of some people that don't even need high speed but changed to FTTC because they were on option 3 BT and BT called them and said FTTC/Infinity was available for no install feee or extra money and said yes without really getting what it was!!
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
I see VM now display info on the updated page, so p2p and nntp to be throttled plus whatever accidently gets tagged as them. Stil hardly anyone asks the question why here we have people wanting pay per GB and isps shaping as if nothing is wrong doing it yet most other civilised countries can provide services unshaped without the service collapsing. We obviously doing something wrong as we the odd one out.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Define 'Most other civilised countries' Chrysalis please. There are loads that cap, shape or have obscure FUPs.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@Dixinormous

I pay for a service, I have a right to use it to the best of its potential and Usenet is legal, otherwise it's Mr. Seedbox.

So the DEA doesn't apply to me :)
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Course it does, applies to everyone and is protocol agnostic and yes I know you do, doesn't stop me describing you as an advert for pay per gig though :)

Anyway that's taking things aside a bit - over to Chrysalis and these civilised countries.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@Dixinormous

lol, PPG wouldn't be necessary if ISPs didn't over sell bandwidth.

If LLU providers can do it, VM certainly can.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"CB - I've already answered your question - ALL tiers, including the upcoming 100/10 service, are subject to P2P / NNTP throttling. It's being deployed at the moment."

"being deployed" So its not here in full already as you and others have claimed earlier??? Again please make up your mind.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"otester - you are an advertisement both for pay per GB services and the Digital Economy Act. It's fair to say that your usage isn't really to be used as an example of anything other than someone who downloads stuff just because it's there. "

Not sure i agree he is an advert for pay per Gig or the DEA. An advert for clueless piracy stupidity maybe ;) He seems to want to always come on boasting about his latest illegal downloaded amounts. Perhaps he thinks it makes him look cool or something.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@CB

Illegal? Non?

"Perhaps he thinks it makes him look cool or something."

--> They See Me Rollin' They Hatin'
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
I can't actually see where I said such things, unlike your constant assertions that it isn't here and won't be here. I have precisely once been ambiguous and every other time referred to the protocol shaping as being in the future.

Your attempt to redirect is weak. You dived in with the usual 'fanboy' bluster and some totally wrong 'insider' knowledge.

Per usual rather than accepting you might be wrong you just dig deeper and deeper.

You are as arrogant as you are irrational and it's actually a testament to this site you are still tolerated here at all.

Have a nice day!
Posted by kijoma over 6 years ago
damn copy cats, stealing our high speed uploads :) , may have to increase or 4mbps upload to 5 now :D
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB

Illegal? Non?"

Go on then, as you want to be a cool 12 year old in the sandpit tell us all what you are downloading that amounts to 35gig a day... Oh and when you have go tell the BPI and similar about it also and supply you full contact details to them, report back in 12 months time if you are not locked up.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@Dixinormous you stated quite clearly and i quote "All tiers are bidirectionally shaped" (thats in your 5th post you made).

I ask you to explain now why anon123456 is NOT shaped when using P2P but gets their full speed?

I suppose even though he/she is using the service and has claimed that he/she is irrational also, are they?

Somehow i think a user and myself who has used the service know its not shaped.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@CB

BPI are scum and are a tool of the elite just Mandelscum, they don't care about justic, hence we have these retarded laws.
Posted by Rexz over 6 years ago
When companies put in lines like the one below, I sometimes wonder where the customer stands. This is from their traffic management but I am sure the same similar lines are littered throughout their T&C's. Does this give the right for any company to add these similar lines or statements, and pretty much change what they like, when they like?

"We reserve the right to modify this traffic management document at any time, without prior notice and solely at our own discretion. Any changes will take effect when posted on our website."
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
Can you imagine taking out car insurance and being told that the amount insured for, and the conditions attached to any claim, can be changed at the will of the insurer and without any notification whatsoever to the customer, whose contract shall remain in force regardless?
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
I'm probably going to regret this comment... personally, for me, cable is the only really viable broadband in this country. BT are just making a half-hearted attempt to catch up a little bit with FTTC, 10 years too late. My almost entirely negative experiences with anything that BT touch lead me to have controversial views. However I have, so far as I know, never personally insulted anyone or called them a "fanboy". Doing so simply weakens any argument I might put forward and makes people switch off.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
I wouldn't say its the only viable broadband. FTTH would be the best of course which.

As for FTTC being 10yrs too late well VDSL2 it was only standardised in 2006 as it takes a while for products to be developed. I'm probably your total opposite, I've had a BT line for 13yrs and never had a fault and I've had BT BB since it first came out and had a few rare faults that were fixed very quickly.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
Networks, the internet and servers etc. are all shared. Is this why download limits, traffic management etc. are needed?

ps - otester does not understand copyright.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Just to briefly deal with the above, Virgin are now shaping in at least some areas - 100Mbit triallists in upgraded areas have reported shaping as have others across all tiers.

Still clearly one person not noting shaping yet is more than enough to prove it isn't happening to anyone when it's what some want to hear.

My occasionally careless use of tense aside doesn't change the simple fact that all tiers are shaped. I look forward to seeing more reports of this coming online and, who knows, maybe even a neck wound in a bit.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Somerset - correct. Cable is about relatively small amounts of bandwidth shared between relatively small amounts of customers. Virgin's contention ratio they target is a good one by most standards however it only takes a couple of crazily heavy users to cause problems.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Just to briefly deal with the above, Virgin are now shaping in at least some areas - 100Mbit triallists in upgraded areas have reported shaping as have others across all tiers."

Oh i see so now its only "SOME" areas LMAO, what you gonna alter ya arguement to next? How are ""All tiers are bidirectionally shaped" if it only happens in your imaginary random areas... Heck why are you even now mentioning 100Mb trials, as all the pages you and BT fans pointed to mention nothing about 100Mb and the "TERMS" to be on those trials are different anyway...... Keep peddling though.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@Somerset and quote "ps - otester does not understand copyright. "

I think despite what Dixi you, myself and anyone else thinks about possible future virgin shaping, that statement is something we can all agree on 100%
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
"ps - otester does not understand copyright. "

I understand the law, which is what matters, morality is another issue.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago


@Dixi

I have to admit that "crazily heavy users" should check T&C and buy a connection that allows fully unlimited use. Hence truly unlimited DSL/FTTC is a better option.

This justifies the FTTC price tag of £80, you get what you pay for, truly unlimited internets!

Overselling bandwidth leaves you with two paths, do what Zen does and be honest about the speed loss at peak times but explain that allows you to have higher usage/price ratio, or use traffic management to artificially keep the speed as high as possible while restricting anyone that tries to use bandwidth heavy applications.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
I mention 100Mbit because, unlike you CB, I do actually know people within Virgin having worked for them. I've also discussed this with a triallist on 100Mbps who confirms the performance variance.

All tiers are bidirectionally shaped. It's being rolled out at this moment. I would have thought this plainly obvious unless of course one is looking for a disagreement and is being pedantic. It's not possible to go from clean to shaped over >3 million customers overnight.

I used the wrong tense twice, carelessly. I trust all confusion is cleared up.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Its either shaped or it isnt, its either in place or its being rolled out..... Make up your mind Dixi.
Posted by anon123456 over 6 years ago
Dixi I'd be interested to hear more on what sort of variances in DL/UP people on trials are getting.

@otester 35Gb really isn't that much on a 50mbit connection though, we're talking about maxing your line for about 1 hour 40 mins.

I've hit the steam servers for a bunch of games which is in the order of 50-60Gb in one night, actually that comes down in about 3 hours at line speed.

Torrents can get very big if you're talking about a pack of files in the order of 200Gb easily.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
I can't be any clearer than I have CB - please feel free to disagree with yourself if you have any further need to be argumentative.
Posted by ElBobbo over 6 years ago
Why do people care if the service is being throttled? Everyone knows that the uptake of broadband is entirely down to piracy. You might download the occaisional "linux iso" or a game over Steam, but there's no reason for you to have anything better than an 8 meg connection. The ISPs know it very well, which is why they - as a rule - sell connections on how fast they can download movies and music.
Posted by roughbeast over 6 years ago
I see no mention of the 100Mb roll out, which is supposed to be happening 1010/11. Can we safely assume, having set the 10:1 download/upload standard that 100Mb download will be accompanied by 10Mb upload and that the 200Mb trial currently in Coventry will aim for 20Mb upload?
Posted by roughbeast over 6 years ago
Erratum: I meant 2010/11 for 100Mb roll out.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@CB

Law is the law, get over it.

IFPI originated from fascist Italy IIRC, so I don't need to tell you what you are if you support copyright, eh? ;)


@anon123456

In reference to the 14Mb connection, that 35gb was ~9 hours at Max speed. Obviously a connection over 3 times faster will be able to o more.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
roughbeast - that would seem to be a fair assumption.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"I can't be any clearer than I have CB - please feel free to disagree with yourself if you have any further need to be argumentative."

Simply answer the question, is shaping in place or is it being rolled out?.... Please give examples of areas it has been rolled out to and in place working on retail 50Mb already.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
@CB

Context being the official definition.

I don't know anyone else that has spent more than me on software.

Funny that it's has been shown that people who download are also frequent customers...

Yet those I know how detest copyright (in r/l) don't buy very much at all.
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
who**
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