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Dorset look for faster broadband
Wednesday 21 July 2010 11:13:30 by John Hunt

The Dorset Chamber of Commerce & Industry has determined that Dorset needs faster broadband by 2011 following a survey it carried out of businesses. 64% require a connection speed over 10Mbps and 86% want to achieve this within the next 12 months. Currently 31% of those surveyed receive broadband at speeds between 5 and 8 Mbps whilst 39% receive between 1 and 4 Mbps. The weighting of these to ISP is BT heavy as they supply 43% whilst Virgin Media currently only 10%. 33% of people pay up to £20 a month whilst 26 pay up to £30, and there isn't a wish for businesses to pay more than this for faster services.

One opportunity for faster broadband in the area is from two fibre optic cables which are being laid to Portland and will also serve Bournemouth and Poole. The cables are going in to support the Olympic Sailing in 2012 and the Digital Dorset Taskforce are pursuing how these can be used to create a lasting footprint from Dorset's role in the Olympics through upgrades to broadband connections in the area.

"Fast broadband is vital for nearly every business, which needs to transfer information electronically. While large companies can often throw money at the issue, smaller companies cannot."

"If we cannot deliver affordable fast broadband, Dorset risks losing employers and micro-businesses as they look to other locations. This will have an impact both on our economy and the calibre of business people who choose to work in Dorset."

Dr Monica Seeley, Leader of the Digital Dorset Taskforce

A short term hope for the area could be through a wireless project from Dorset based ISP C4L who say they could provide 10meg wireless broadband to some areas for £30 a month, but the rest of Dorset will be waiting for exchange upgrades and a roll out of fibre services before they can get faster speeds.

Comments

Posted by cyberdoyle over 6 years ago
If the fibres are going in then it makes sense to put in some breakout points along the way. (Digital village pumps) so that better access can be given to communities in need. Lots of work will go on for the olympics, so it makes sense to capitalise on investment and get greater rewards from it. Good thinking from Dorset chamber.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
So broadband is vital, urgent need, a need for many for >10Mbps. None are willing to pay more than 30 quid a month.

And people wonder why companies are so reluctant to splurge a load of money on infrastructure upgrades.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
CD - I'm sure if these communities throw a few quid in BT's general direction these backhauls can be provisioned. The fibres are probably already there, connecting their exchanges to the rest of BT world.

Or is the point that they get the leased GigE for free?
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
"and there isn't a wish for businesses to pay more than this for faster services"

Sigh.

So they want it to be faster but they don't want to pay any more. And these are businesses? You'd think they'd understanding the concept of getting what you pay for.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
2 cables to Portland, but from where is important for CD's breakout scheme.
Posted by whatever2 over 6 years ago
says a lot when h20 don't get a mention.

quite happy with Be in both my exchanges...
Posted by TaRkADaHl over 6 years ago
Isn't this just typical of the countries attidtude as a whole, everyone wants faster speeds but aren't willing to pay for it.

The future really does look bright when people are thinking like this.
Posted by csimon over 6 years ago
I pay £17 for 100Kbps-500Kbps which is also unstable. If these businesses regard money as more important then service then perhaps they'd like to swap their circumstances for mine. Yes, their broadband would be extremely slow and it would keep dropping out, but at least they'd be spending £13 per month less on it, with which they could further their business far more than a reliable and fast internet connection would. (of course, I'm being sarcastic...)
Posted by Aerelink over 6 years ago
Perhaps the answer lies in building a private, sustainable wireless network that can be accessed by businesses across Dorset. Installing a wireless network, capable of carrying data services that is owned by the community – and not rented from a service provider – could be a more viable alternative. Depending on who owned the network, revenue could also be generated from allowing companies to connect to it. This principal has already been applied to several cities across the world, including Dundee, via Dundee City Council. They are known as ‘Intelligent communities’.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
That would indeed make far more sense than waiting for an 'angel' telecomms company to supply bandwidth for free / heavily discounted.
Posted by wirelesspacman over 6 years ago
It would not surprise me if the questions themselves helped to generate the response that the businesses were not prepared to pay more.

I do agree though with the previous posters - businesses are happy to pay thousands of pounds a month for good staff, but the thought of investing a few tens of pounds more in a good broadband connection does seem to fill many with horror!
Posted by whatever2 over 6 years ago
wireless would be a good trick considering mobile reception can be zero in some parts.

as i said, there's a company attempting fibre in bournemouth, they have been for the past 5 years... still nothing solid in terms of response from them and actual facts and figures about coverage seem to have dried up...
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@Those that think people should pay more than £30 for a 10Mb or greater service..... How much should a person pay for a 10Mb connection? You can get UPTO 8Mb for under £10 a month so if they are willing to pay £30 for 10Mb thats a 300% increase some are willing to fork out.
Posted by csimon over 6 years ago
Well, you can indeed get 8M for under £10, but an average price with a decent company might be around £15. However you have to pay that amount regardless of whether you can get 8MBps or not. I can only get 100Kb - 500K. So a 10M service would be about 100 to 500 times faster and a lot more stable and certainly I'd be happy to pay double (£30) for that! On the other hand, I can see that people currently getting 8M would not want to pay double just to get 10 and I think they should be happy with what they've got and let investment take place in areas that have been ignored for 10yrs.
Posted by csimon over 6 years ago
Or perhaps a fairer way would be to price your service according to what speed you're getting and what bandwidth you use, instead of a one-price-fits-all approach that the "up to" system provides. So if people think that £30 is the limit for a 10Mbps connection then they must think that it's fair that a 500Kbps connection should only attract a maximum charge of £1.50. It's speed and bandwidth that cost the ISPs, so why should people on low speeds subsidise the people on higher speeds? £30 for 10Mbps is probably unrealistic.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Getting billed on bandwidth usage does seem like a good way to go but in reality I'm not sure how it will go down, its a massive change. People like the fact they pay a fixed monthly fee, no surprises. If it goes to bandwidth based I fear it will go back to the mentality of the old dial up days where you only went on the net for short periods for fear of a large bill. It depends what the charges/thresholds are I guess.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@csimon i hear what you are saying, but it works the other way also. Someone could be paying £15 and getting their 8Mb, so that would still be a 200% increase and only as a guarantee (well as close as guarantee) be 2Mb (or more though we dont know what the top end speed would be) faster. For someone such as yourself it would be a bargain as you would be getting a significant improvement, for many though it wouldnt, which is why i ask those that mentioning paying more just how much extra someone should pay for what may only be a couple of Mb speed increase.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
For once i agree with you GMAN :) I personally think billing by bandwidth used would be a huge step backwards for the net. The internet is so feature rich nowadays you can rack up Megabit upon Megabit just visiting sites that use a lot of flash (The new A-Team movie website i was looking at during lunch is a good example). It would kill off the internet and all the improvements like video, audio and such like we have had over the years. People would be scared senseless how much just a bit of browsing could cost them.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@csimons 2nd post.... I dont think people look at what speed should cost what when divided up as you have done in your example, though logically i agree with you they should. People think like ive mentioned, if they are getting 8Mb for £10 or £15 they are not going to then pay £30 for only a slight improvement IE 8 to 10Mb. I certainly wouldnt pay double or more than double for such a small performance boost
Posted by TaRkADaHl over 6 years ago
Personally, £30 for a fixed (not up to) 10Mb is pretty good, I wouldn't complain... on two conditions.

Assured minimum throughput and a minimal/non existant fair usage policy.

To have the above, I would actually pay more, especially if its provided to a business.

I can understand res customers wanting cheap and cheerful, but this is businesses.
Posted by TaRkADaHl over 6 years ago
I have talked to people have turn overs of £750k per month, yet are not willing to spend above £22.50 per month for their ADSL service, and then demand £20k per day in compensation if it stops working.

Pretty stupid really, if you require a connection to earn a living, then pay for it!

10Mb leased line costs circa £8k per year, which has 100% uptime and no limits.

The connection used should be proportional to both the amount it is required to run the business, and the revenue generated.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
^^ Totally agree, there's no problem with people running a small business on a res connection to keep costs down, but please don't try to change the product to fit your needs/costs, if you want more you pay more if you want to use it for business, by a business grade service.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
When it comes to business i agree with you both if you pay peanuts for your broadband you cant expect gold in return. I can only assume most businesses with regards to this story though are happy with their sub £30 services in a reliability sense but not necessarily in a speed sense.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Imagine this was about another industry:

"Currently 31% of those surveyed drive Vectras whilst 39% drive Fiestas...The Dorset Chamber of Commerce & Industry has determined that Dorset needs Aston Martins and there isn't a wish for businesses to pay more for faster cars."

If you read this I'm sure you'd conclude that the members of the Chamber had taken leave of their senses! Why do they expect service providers to subsidise their businesses?
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
£30 per month would buy an awful lot more than a piddling 0.5Mbps downstream in so many other countries which have modern delivery mechanisms.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
WOrth checking facts about pricing - the pricing in the UK for comms (inc broadband) is far lower than in most other major economies (including US, W.Europe) according to OECD data.
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
And so are the speeds. I reckon there's a connection between those two things.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"WOrth checking facts about pricing - the pricing in the UK for comms (inc broadband) is far lower than in most other major economies (including US, W.Europe) according to OECD data."

Thats nonsense, in one post you talk about speed for xx price now you just want to compare pricing... Other Major economies either charge less than us for the same speed, or the same as us for faster speed... You wouldnt find many Americans pay $60 (approx) for just broadband at upto 8Mb. It will either be faster or have cable tv and similar bundled.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
A 25Mb down, 25Mb up fios service from Verizon with home phone costs $65.... For $120 (or £60ish which is what some FTTC services, especially business goes around for) they get...
FiOS TV Ultimate HD 390+ channels, including 90+ in HD.
FiOS Internet 35/35 Mbps. 35 Mbps download, 35 Mbps upload
Unlimited calls Calling accross the U.S. and to Canada and Puerto Rico
The UK the same you say....... I dont think so.

Id wish we had 400 TV channels and those internet speeds (especially upload) for £60
Posted by rob808 over 6 years ago
broadband in uk is cheaper than in than most EU Countries like Ireland 7mb and phone in bundle is €61.73 so that £51.36 still think £30 a rip off come live in IRELAND.It funny listing to english people crying about prices of broadband when they have so many deals on offer.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
As Rob808 says, despite what you might think, pricing elsewhere is higher - check the OECD data portal for an impartial view if you want facts rather than opinion.

By the way, remember FTTC in the UK costs £24.99 for the consumer version, which is approx $38.50, or around half the $65 mentioned by CB for the 25Mb FIOS service. For $120 (or £78) you'd get a very good bundle in the UK, you'd struggle to find broadband for £6.49 a month ($10) nin the US, as offered by Plusnet in the UK.

So check facts and exchange rates!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Suggest people also consider availability of broadband, which is much lower in most major economies than it is in the UK (if satellite is excluded, which is available widely, but is generally expensive).

UK availability is around 99% for up to 8Mbps, getting up to 75% for up to 24Mbps (ADSL2+). Try getting broadband in rural USA.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"By the way, remember FTTC in the UK costs £24.99 for the consumer version, which is approx $38.50, or around half the $65 mentioned by CB for the 25Mb FIOS service."
Add REGULAR (not bundled) telephone line rental and SO CALLED FRRE CALLS package onto that FTTC price as i thought i made it clear the 25Mb service is also for a phone service with free calls then redo your maths (ya find its about £20 more to add on bringing it to £45 or $90ish)........ I wont even mention that £25 quid FTTC service is throttled capped nonsense with slower uprates.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"For $120 (or £78) you'd get a very good bundle in the UK, you'd struggle to find broadband"

Name one with the same speeds and even close to the same amount of TV channels (infact even one with just 90 HD channels)...... No point even comparing prices with you if you cant compare what you even get for the money.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
In fact a BUNDLE of broadband (inc hub and wi-fi minutes), calls (Unlimited UK Anytime calls including 0845 and 0870 numbers), and line rental with BT costs £37.48 or just under US$58. NB This is after disounts for the first 3 months, no doubt similar packages from others too.

Also, check your exchange rate - it is not £1=$2 at present!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
Suggest you speak to people with experience of US broadband, not as good as you may imagine, and with far less choice of ISPs etc than in the UK.

Assume you agree about lack of offers at $10/month in the US? Also agree about having much less coverage of broadband than in the UK?

For others, ignore bias and opinion, check the OECD data portal for subjective comparisions between countries.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
Suggest you speak to people with experience of US broadband, not as good as you may imagine, and with far less choice of ISPs etc than in the UK.

Assume you agree about lack of offers at $10/month in the US? Also agree about having much less coverage of broadband than in the UK?

For others, ignore bias and opinion, check the OECD data portal for OBJECTIVE comparisions between countries.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"..... with BT costs £37.48 or just under US$58. NB This is after disounts for the first 3 months, no doubt similar packages from others too."

LMFAO SIMILAR INDEED.......
1 BT dont do HD let alone 400 SD channels.... Opps wheres my HD 2 Thats 8Mb broadband.... Opps wheres my 35Mb up and down 3 Thats local and national calls only and no doubt being BT evenings or weekends only. 4 Stop defending and talking nonsense BT offer nothing even close to the Verizon packages.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
This made me laugh though........
quote"Also, check your exchange rate - it is not £1=$2 at present!"
Agreed...... Followed by.....
quote"Assume you agree about lack of offers at $10/month in the US? Also agree about having much less coverage of broadband than in the UK?"
LOL why would it be $10, If we are talking math $1 does not equal £1...... So no a £10 service here wouldnt be $10 in the states would it.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Less coverage..... Er NOPE, American is just a tad bigger than the UK broadband out there covers a far wider land mass and serves alot more people. Their broadband for the most part isnt even ADSL either its cable, so why you are even comparing BT coverage to that is a mystery.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Do you work for BT? Seriously comparing a BT Vision TV/Broadband/phone package to a American FIOS cable company offering........ That right there is the funniest comparison ive read in a long time..... Thats like comparing a jet pack to a horse and cart...... You can guess which is which Its similar people, just as long as you ignore all the stuff on BT vision is freeview and the broadband only goes at 8Mb ROFL
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Seriously tears in my eyes with laughing now...... You have definately convinced me to run out and get BT Vision..... I cant wait for the near 400 SD channels and 90 Hd ones..... Its "similar" people and only a third of the price...... Of course it is i wonder why people are not chewing limbs of to get it LOL
Uk offers exactly the same for less, off course they do, its not just BBC channels and Dave re-runs, thats an illusion.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Oh and ive looked....
quote"with BT costs £37.48"

that would also be option 2 broadband with a 40gig a month cap.... Very similar :rollseyes:

That right there has to be the poorest overall compare in history with none of it matching or exceeding anothers product
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
Couple of points.

1. £27.99 is actualy Option 3 not Option 2 broadband - then add on the line rental at £9.49. This includes "Unlimited Anytime UK Calls".Currently Infinity Option 2 (ie 40Mbps FTTC) is same price as BB Option 3.

2. Re lack of $10/month broadband in US, my maths is fine thanks, this is US equivalent of Plusnet £6.49/month service.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
3. Yes USA is bigger than UK, but you will find broadband coverage in the States patchy outside urban areas.

4. Think you're misinformed about Ireland - Eirecom will not be happy about your post!

When you've wiped away your tears, READ the info on OECD portal which gives objective country comparisons and stop being so down on the UK.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
1) So your compare didnt include TV services at all........ EVEN FUNNIER, wheres my TV fullstop.
2) YOUR MATHS ISNT FINE..... You forgot again to add on the BT line rental to get that £6.49 plusnet broadband. So it wouldnt be $10 total would it DOH!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
3) Thats funny Broadband patchy outside urban areas in the states.... What do you think its like here? The USA can have ADSL2+ over a phone line if they are not in a cable area, its no more patchy than it is here and they serve a bigger area and more people.
4) He said nothing about Eirecom, only quoted a price even though that may be the product he takes, which like BT is obviously over priced.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago

I dont need to read anything further you have demonstrated their are not SIMILAR services available in this country, infact ill be kind point to any service no matter what the cost where i can have a bundle of 400 SD TV channels 90 HD and 25Mb down and up broadband.... YOU CANT! Cos our services are NOT similar. Its clear you are here to support BT and nothing more and when challenged like all BT supporters can not back up your claims.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
cb - Id wish we had 400 TV channels.

Lots of FTA channels on Astra if you want shopping, religion etc.

' Ireland may well be more expensive.... But that destroys you also cos whos responsible for most services there....... Oh thats right BT.......'

Eircom is the original telco there. Have BT taken most of their business? Why?

Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
There are not 400 SD channels available on Astra and Eurobird combined Have a look on lyngsat.com, half of whats listed them are basically dupes which you get depending on where you are in the country (BBC One Wales, BBC One Scotland, BBC One London etc) And there certainly is nowhere near 90 HD channels you wouldnt even get 90 HD channels paying sky top whack so his compare fails and we cant get SIMILAR here at all.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
He didnt mention if the service was Eircom or not, it may well be given its spec/price.
Either way again it doesnt compare to services you can get over fios in the US.... His whole argument from the start was and ill quote
"the pricing in the UK for comms (inc broadband) is far lower than in most other major economies (including US, W.Europe)"
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
That obviously for the most part is not true, and in the select cases where a service here may be cheaper comparing it to parts of Western Europe and the USA is like comparing a Ferrari to a Lada.... The Lada may well be cheaper but you dont exactly get the same for your money. Rubbish like 1 or 2Mb that some people have to put up with here isnt even deemed by some to be broadband in other countries. Comparing us is a joke, if we are so great why is it last time there was a story about the UKs ranking on this site we were 20 odd in the table?
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
Maybe there is not the demand in the UK for 400 SD and 90 HD channels...

There are also channels on other satellites that can be received in the UK.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
You cant compare the UK to parts of the world that left our tech and poor choice long ago.

Neither BT, Sky or Virgin can give what a fios company in the US provides and even if they could it would cost a damn site more because the top end packages here are riddiculously priced already. BT cant compete at all (Freeview and ondemand doesnt come close to multi channel goodness and neither does rubbish 8Mb come close to FIOS) BT for broadband have a hard enough time competing on price and speed here let alone looking at the rest of the damn planet.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2010-03-26-verizon-fios_N.htm

Verizon winds down expensive FiOS expansion

That will still leave a third of its service area (excluding the territories it is selling) without fiber.

Sounds familiar!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
Ignoring the spelling mistakes, and previous bad language, why can't you see FTTC with 40Mbps/10Mbps is a good comparison to 25Mbps / 25Mbps?

WIth regards TV, have you BEEN to the US and SEEN the TV? Its not all as good as the US imports thta we get here! Why anyone would want so many channels of drivel to get a few good ones is beyond me, and Somerset is right, Sky is not the only game in town when it comes to getting satellite in Europe.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
You CAN compare services in the UK with those in the US. As before, suggest you set aside your own bias and look at an objective data source such as the OECD to ensure you gain a more informed opinion rather than just rant.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Going back to the original subject of this post, the good business people of Dorset have been done a major disservice by their CHamber of Commerce. Anyone planning to invest in broadband infrastructure in the county would not be impressed to see that they want something for more or less nothing - hardly a recipe to encourage investment!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB
Ignoring the spelling mistakes, and previous bad language, why can't you see FTTC with 40Mbps/10Mbps is a good comparison to 25Mbps / 25Mbps?"

1) because it isnt, its a totally different service and.....
2) because the BT bundle pack you quoted is 8Mb not FTTC 40Mb.

Get a clue you cant even remember what packages you have mentioned.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"You CAN compare services in the UK with those in the US.........."

Yeah whatever, maybe if you are an idiot that doesnt realise one has more than the other.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote".......Anyone planning to invest in broadband infrastructure in the county would not be impressed to see that they want something for more or less nothing..."

What are you on about now, the story is about what people in Dorset would like, not what they are getting or not getting......The mentioned wireless spot thing has been done in other areas of the UK (kent springs to mind) the area isnt getting anything which the rest of the country wont, and neiher is it getting anything extra. We would all like everything for nothing, but we and they know it wont happen.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
How do these 'two cables' have anything to do with increasing speeds for the people of Dorset?
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
You're right about some community wireless projects in the South East, some funded with sate aid. Sadly many have quietly gone away due to the inability of community groups to delivery quality services over an extended period - in particular to businesses.

Hopefully less of an issue with ever greater deployment of ADSL2+ and FTTC/P.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@Somerset
Not sure the "two cables" have much bearing on the issue unless backhaul is a problem and they can be used to supplement existing bandwidth?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Just to say one thing i think we all agree on is why the "two cables" thing is even mentioned in the story is a mystery. Basically nothing to do with the area concerned.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
'maybe if you are an idiot ' very constructive.

Why has the US got more channels, it's a mystery. But only in 2/3s of the area.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Why has the US got more channels, it's a mystery. But only in 2/3s of the area."

I have no idea what you mean.... If they cant get their 400 SD and 90 HD channels on cable (which is unlikely as various cable companies cover most homes in the states) They can get them via a little thing called satelite...... Something if you remember saying is an option for people here to get their 2Mb broadband rather than relying on BT
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Everyone in the states can get satelite and not depend on cable out there, just as everyone here as defenders for BT have stated could get their 2Mb from a satelite service, rather than BT spending money..... So no idea why you now want to area or fractions of area ;)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
But while we are on the subject of 2/3s of areas and this being a broadband story.... Remind me again why BT arre only doing 2/3s of the uk with FTTC? ;) Not that im trying to use your own argument agaisnt you about a digital divide in a country or anything like that ;) obviously ;)
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
2/3 refers to Verizon and their FIOS service. Maybe there is no demand for 100s of TV channels in the UK.

You will have to ask BT about the FTTC rollout.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
You do realise its not just Verizon that do fibre? Also no comment they can always use satelite i see, i guess that excuse only fits when it suits you ;)

No need to ask BT about FTTC, they have lost the top end speed challenge....
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/4325.html
46Mb to Virgin ahhh

Case closed, UK sucks for TV choice and so do BT for broadband speed.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
Not enough channels on Astra/Sky for you? If not why not, must be lack of demand.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
If there is lack of demand why is it channels get added and the amount increases but does not decrease... Surely lack of demand would mean Sky 2 and 3 as example would had never been invented. They never had a sky 2 or sky 3 years ago. Demand is obviously there if they keep spending money to increase the amount of channells but just as i say the UK doesnt match the USA, the USA have us beat.
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
Does it matter that the US have more channels? What has this got to do with Dorset?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Ask New_Londoner they are the one that initially wanted to compare the UK to Europe and the US
First on price which i disagreed with, then on comparing services, which i also disagree with his opinion on and have proven our services dont compare on price or what content/speed you get for your money.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
Sadly you have not "proven our services dont compare on price or what content/speed you get for your money" as you don't really have the evidence to make a valid case, nor possibly first-hand experience of the actual quality of the services in question.

As I keep recommending, suggest anyone actually interested in the facts, as opposed to CB's bias, take a look at the OECD data portal which provides objective data to compare services in different countries on price etc.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
s before, when you actually do the sums and use the correct exchange rates (ie not £1 = $2)you will find that the 25Mb FIOS service in the US costs more than the 40/10Mb FTTC service.

Depending on circumstances, some will value the higher upstream speed more, some the downstream speed. But either way, it costs more!

Like I said, you have not "proven our services dont compare on price or what content/speed you get for your money" as you don't really have the evidence to make a valid case,
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
PS Not convinced that ThinkBroadband is really the place to post libellous comments, I suspect the moderators would not approve!

For the record, I do not and never have taken drugs or other illegal substances. I do however have an aversion to people making unsubstantiated, ill informed and factually incorrect claims about UK infrastructure.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"s before, when you actually do the sums and use the correct exchange rates (ie not £1 = $2)you will find that the 25Mb FIOS service in the US costs more than the 40/10Mb FTTC service."

No it doesnt, before you do your maths remember you have to pay BT line rental (for that last bit of copper, or to break it down for you as you are a bit simple...
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
£13.29 Line Rental (thats what it will be from october this year http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/4316.html)
£4.99 (for calls package)
£24.99 (Minimu for unlimted 40Mb even though its not unlimited direct from BT)
TOTAL £43.27..... Converted to dollars via http://www.dollars2pounds.com/
=$67.48
Verizon fios 25Mb pacakage of phone and 25Mb
=$64.99 <<< Which is less and for you equals FAIL!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Oh almost forgot the fios link see you dont question the $64.99......
http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/Fiosinternet/#plans
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
A little bit of knowledge....

I could be wrong but I believe that teh $64.99 Fios package does not include the cost of calls - note that without the phone its $69.99 a month - a bit odd if calls are included in the lower price!

Fios 25Mb internet with unlimited calling is actually $89.99/month, discounted to $79.99 for the first 6 months! ...
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
.. oh and by the way, unlike UK prices, which INCLUDE VAT etc, the US prices EXCLUDES Taxes and fees, which can add a surprisingly large extra amount to the bill - see http://www.northjersey.com/news/99443359_Mysterious_FiOS_fees_are_rooted_in_history.html.

So sadly for our friend CB, using his(?) own UK price build of £43.27 for a BT FTTC + unlimited calls bundle + line rental, and using the correct exchange rates, the UK package price of approx US $67.48 looks VERy attractive to the discouted Fios price in months 1-6 of $79.99 BEFORE taxes and fees are even added!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Nice Job CB and "Hoho double cluelessness from you"!!!

(For reference, this is the FiOS Double Play" bundle).

By the way, Verizon fanboys should check out the non-Fios bundles, with broadband rates at up to 1, 3 and a whopping 7.1Mbps - not quite as competitive in the US vs. the UK as some people would have us believe, but hey, who needs facts to have an opinion!

Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"I could be wrong but I believe that teh $64.99 Fios package does not include the cost of calls - note that without the phone its $69.99 a month - a bit odd if calls are included in the lower price!
."

Pacakage prices in the states dont work how they do here due to having more competition. The more stuff they can get you to take the less chance of going to a compeititor.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
That homephone side of things includes calls it clearly states in the details (you have to enter an american postcode)
"Whats included...........
Talk as long as you want with unlimited calling and loads of super convenient calling features:Unlimited local, regional & nationwide long distance residential calling, Home Voice Mail, Caller ID,Crystal clear voice quality and more."
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Doesn't answer the question CB, the FIOS Double Play bundle is $89.99/month to get calls included!

$64.99 does not get you unlimited calls, and does not include taxes or fees, so not a like-for-like comparison I'm afraid. Sorry.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote".. oh and by the way, unlike UK prices, which INCLUDE VAT etc, the US prices EXCLUDES Taxes and fees, which can add a surprisingly large extra amount to the bill - see"

Certain areas of the states do not pay taxes on electrical goods, phone, internet or mobile services....... Its impossible to include or not include price with tax as it varies state to state, some states pay none so that still means parts of America are cheaper and you still fail!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"By the way, Verizon fanboys should check out the non-Fios bundles, with broadband rates at up to 1, 3 and a whopping 7.1Mbps - not quite as competitive in the US vs. the UK"

Totally irrelevant the USA market is different if you cant get fios then obviously you would go to someone like comcast that offers higher speeds, just like i didnt go to BT and their Crap budget service and speed...... Verizon want to sell fios thats why their other stuff is no longer attractive. You obviously know nothing about whats happening with broadband in the USA
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
$64.99 is for FIOS Broadband, phone and calls, is NOT a special offer and in some areas of the USA that is the finaal price, nothing more to add, tax law in the USA varies state to state its not the same for the entire country Numpty!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Sadly CB, cutting through the abuse, the Fios Double Play Bundle of 25mbps broadband + calling is US$79.99/month, discounted in months 1-6 to US$69.99/month, with taxes AND fees to be added.

Even without taxes and fees, and including the discount in months 1-6, it is MORE expensive. Adding in taxes, fees and after the introductory discount you're typically spending an extra $20/month.

So stop being so supportive of tech in the US - you'd know it isn't all its cracked up to be if you went there and experienced it first-hand!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
NB The basic BT answering service is free too!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
CORRECTION - wrong price quoted above, dropped $10/month in error!

The Fios Double Play Bundle of 25mbps broadband + calling is US$89.99/month, discounted in months 1-6 to US$79.99/month, with taxes AND fees to be added.

Even without taxes and fees, and including the discount in months 1-6, it is MORE expensive. Adding in taxes, fees and after the introductory discount you're typically spending an extra $30/month!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
In the unlikely event anyone else has an unhealthy interest in FIOS, the following is on the Verizone web site.

FiOS Double PlaySee details

Fios Internet 25/25 + unlimited calling

Starting at:
$79.99 per month for months 1-6.
$89.99/mo. for mos. 7-12. Plus taxes and fees.

Offer Details:
Worry-Free Guarantee includes no term contract, premium installation and follow-up satisfaction call.Best Price Online: Includes $15/month off for 6 months and $5 off for months 7-12—a $120 savings.Get a wireless router at no cost.Plus, no activation fee with online orders—a $49 savings
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
it isnt $79.99 its $64.99 POINT WHERE IT STATES ITS FOR X MONTHS ONLY.

Oh and yep BT answering is free shame the other extras aint.....
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25504

Oh and Its £1.25 MORE PER SERVICE if you dont pay via direct debit, suddenly that £43.27 starts to approach £50..... Opps
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Evidence to the prices with links as i have done please
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
So CB has helped us all to understand that the lovely US package is roughly 50% dearer than the equivalent service from BT. Good job!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
If you need links, go to:

http://www22.verizon.com/residential/bundles/#


Scroll down and select "Show more bundles" and you will then see the Fios Double Play bundle of Internet 25/25 and unlimited calls on your screen, bottom left.

Text details will read as per my post above, including pricing of "Starting at:
$79.99 per month for months 1-6, $89.99/mo. for mos. 7-12. Plus taxes and fees."
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
All nice and clear and on Verizon's site, you can hardly acuse them of being BT fanboys too, surely?
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
SUggest we move on, some of us have a life!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
FIOS double play is for 2 seperate services......

Me thinks you are confused.......
FIOS + HOME PHONE
is not the same as FIOD INTERNET + UNLIMITED CALLING.

You are talking about taking a phone service and FIOS as a seperate service.....
http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/HomePhone/
Thats ya $79.99 and $89.99 package NUMPTY
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
The UNLIMITED CALLING SERVICE is a LANDLINE....... The phone service with FIOS is HOME PHONE DIGITAL VOICE
http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/HomePhone/FiOSDigitalVoice/FiOSDigitalVoice.htm

CLUELESS
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
The phone service you are on about is conventional the one bundled with fios internet is done over the same fios line LOL
http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/HomePhone/FiosDigitalVoice/howitworks/howitworks.htm
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
I'm sure you know what you are trying to say.

Bottom line is that the FIOS service + unlimited calling bundle is more expensive, and gets more so when discounts are excluded and taxes and fees are taken into account.

NB Fios Digital Voice, the servie you were trying to describe, is not available in every location offering Fios. Unlimited calling is a cost option, hence the bundles cost extra with it as an additional feature!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
I'm sure Fios is a good service, but it seems odd to have someone who I suspect has never used it trying to promote its benefits , suggest it's cheaper than FTTC and try to ignore extras such as taxes and fees in order to get the most favourable price comparison. Oh, and originally to use £1=£2 to make it look cheaper too.

Like I said, its more expensive, get over it!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Quite - perhaps there should be a filter on ThinkBroadband to exclude minors.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB
I'm sure you know what you are trying to say.

Bottom line is that the FIOS service + unlimited calling bundle is more expensive, and gets more so when discounts are excluded and taxes and fees are taken into account."

Id agree what you point to on the double and triple play pages is more expensive because the phone side is a different service to the pacakage ive quoted. What i quoted is $64.99
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Like I said, its more expensive, get over it!"

No the package you point to is more expensive... Thats for a fixed landline (the unlimited calling option is extra as its another line).

Fios digital voice is a different service and comes with fios internet and is delivered over the fibre cable.

THIS IS ALL VERY CLEAR if you click buy now and put in an American zip code, a summary page then explains what you are about to order... the $64.99 pacakage is fiosdigital voice home phone NOT unlimited calling plan, the unlimited calling plan is for a seperate phone line.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"but it seems odd to have someone who I suspect has never used it trying to promote its benefits"

You suspect wrong, i have a family member married to an American who now lives out there.

quote"suggest it's cheaper than FTTC and try to ignore extras such as taxes and fees"

Tax law varies state to state in the USA, an example someone shopping on Amazon in LA for electrical items may pay a tax, someone on the east coast like Ohio may not.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
I thought i already explained that! Tax on things like phone and broadband really does varie all over the USA, some parts pay none at all, some pay alot, some will pay ONLY "CENTS" (Literally).

quote"Quite - perhaps there should be a filter on ThinkBroadband to exclude minors."

Id agree, thanks for thinking im still young though, at my age thats a compliment. As for filters one to exclude BT supporting dullards, would be far easier to implement than a guess the persons age filter, a filter like that would be as senseless as you.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"NB Fios Digital Voice, the servie you were trying to describe, is not available in every location offering Fios"

LMAO classic thats right where there is fios theres no fios service ROFL... When did you have this latest day dream???
The voice is delivered over fios. I spose where Virgin cable is availablle not everyone can have their cable voice service either...... Seriously close your mouth. Each time it opens you put an Elephant sized foot in it.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
The Verizon web site actually tells you that the digital voice service is not available everywhere you can get Fios, surprising but true.

Yet again your comments re teh voice service ignore the requirement to have unlimited calling, not just the ability to make voice calls.

You keep referring to the variability in taxes, they do still exist. NB the fees are also material, you've not mentioned those?
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
So keep the excuses coming if you like but it is more expensive when you add in the various extras. Like you stated though, important to do this to ensure a fair comparison.

ALternatively, do we ignore VAT on the UK prices as businesses can get this back?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB
The Verizon web site actually tells you that the digital voice service is not available everywhere you can get Fios, surprising but true."
Where does it say that it actually states quite clearly........
Is FiOS Digital Voice part of the whole FiOS system?
Yes...............
Their FIOS internet service was introduced after the phone service, the phone service actually came first, then the TV, then FIOS internet, try entering a US postcode then clicking about FIOS LMAO
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Yet again your comments re teh voice service ignore the requirement to have unlimited calling, not just the ability to make voice calls."

What??? Are you still confused, or just dum, you get unlimited calls with FIOS digital Voice
read the link i gave earlier and the small print
quote"Plans include residential direct-dialed domestic calls"
My god you are dim.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"You keep referring to the variability in taxes, they do still exist. NB the fees are also material, you've not mentioned those?"

Unlike you im not an idiot or id be quoting BT prices for PAPER BILLING and increasing that £42 odd quid even further along with the non-direct debit punishment charges, and phone extras. But if you want to play that game go ahead find the highest tax rate and ill add all that on to give a new total then well see who is still more expensive, actual dont do that you have already shown you cant add up. Or compare like for like.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"So keep the excuses coming if you like but it is more expensive when you add in the various extras."

What various extras??? There are no VARIOUS extras its $64.99 for a fios internet service and a home phone (also powered via the fios).
Get a clue!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"ALternatively, do we ignore VAT on the UK prices as businesses can get this back? "

No ive ignored the charges BT make for paper billing and a whole lot more. (extra charges of their FTTC if you dont pay by direct debit). If you want to add on extra charges i can do that also.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago


FiOS® Digital Voice is an advanced voice service on Verizon's 100% fiber-optic network.
Quote from Verizon site re Verizon FiOS Digital Voice, how it works:

"It's fully integrated into all FiOS systems, from ordering to support, and is now available in many areas where you can get FiOS Internet and/or FiOS TV."


Note it does NOT say that it is available in ALL areas where you can get FiOS Internet. Does this help clarify?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
OMG enter a zip code, anywhere there is FIOS you can have a fios phone, christ thats why it was originally done....... FIOS internet didnt come before fios phone.

If you can get fios internet you can get fios phone, its done over the same bit of wire you fool
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Dont you have a home to go to, dumb as chicken poop in the news comments and now posting anonymously on the forum..... Repeating the same poop as you have in numerous news item comments Mum and dad must be proud!
Like a parrot "squark what about uploads" squark squark!
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Quote "now posting anonymously on the forum"?No idea what you're talking about - sorry if someone else is raising similar points, not me, I have a life!

Anyway, back to Verizon, the text I've pasted above is what Verizon have put on their own site, not my interpretation of what they might mean.

I repeat, it clearly says that "now available in many areas where you can get FiOS Internet and/or FiOS TV." If you think this is incorrect please tell Verizon, they wrote it not me!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"......No idea what you're talking about..."

Finally an admission, took you long enough
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Good to see people avoiding dealing with the issues and resorting to red herrings instead.

So we agree that Verizon are the experts when it comes to stating whether or not the FiOS digital voice service is available wherever you can get FiOS Internet and/or FiOS TV?
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Quote " thought i already explained that! Tax on things like phone and broadband really does varie all over the USA, some parts pay none at all, some pay alot, some will pay ONLY "CENTS" (Literally)."

Actually only 5 of the states do not have sales tax, the average of the rest is 5.6% (range is 2.9-8.25%).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
^^ LOL even if those rates were right (even though they aint) everyone upto almost the 4% mark would still be paying less (64.99+3.8% if you want to be precise)....
TOTAL FOR BT £43.27..... Converted to dollars
=$67.48.....
So thats around half the USA (actually more than that) which could still pay less and thats still without adding on BT extras like NON direct debit fees, paper bill fees etc etc
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Or in simple terms for you thats ATLEAST 154,932,500 Americans that could still pay less than BT phone + FTTC (assuming they are in areas that have fios, and not just from verizon) LOL, your maths gets funnier.

ME avoiding the ISSUES and RED HERRINGS..... Atleast i can bloody add up.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
LOL ouch my sides even when you strip it down like that thats still almost 38 times the amount of people the opportunity of a supplied cheaper service than what BT can provide to people here.
Here cheaper...... Er nope try again.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Oh and BTW your sales tax figures...... Go research some more..... They are not ONLINE sales tax percentages.

Stick to defending BT you know nothing about that either, but googling confuses you even more.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Thank, compliments appreciated.

Note you've ignored the correction to your incorrect comments about FiOS Digital Voice. At least we both agree that Verizon are in fact the experts on their own services! Ditto that sales tax does in fact apply to the vast majority of people in the US

Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Sales tax or not in the majority of cases (ALL if i add extras BT charge for) it is cheaper.

If you enter zip codes on verizons site you will find every area that has fios can have fios digital voice, and can therefore have the 64.99 package..... Would you like a list to US zip codes to confirm that (please say yes it will keep you occupied like a dog with a bone for a while).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Your sales tax percent figures are also wrong, before you answer with more ill thought out idiot maths. ONLINE sales tax is a different thing in the US
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Getting there - seems we agree Verizon know best about FiOS, most Americans pay sales tax.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
Oops sorry, posted too soon.

If as you say CB "every area that has fios can have fios digital voice", why does Verizone state that "It's fully integrated into all FiOS systems, from ordering to support, and is now available in MANY areas where you can get FiOS Internet and/or FiOS TV"?

Curious to note that they do not claim FiOS Digital Voice to be available in every area, although you do?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
YAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWNNNNN!!!!!!
Posted by btodd over 6 years ago
No wonder CB got bored having to repeat over and over to someone that does not read. He is right about entering Zip codes also. I just tried Beverley Hills Zip code (the famous 90210) and a few from my home city in the States. Looks like everywhere their is FIOS you can have FIOS phone and ONLY where there is no FIOS available do you have to pay for the other phone package if you want a bundle.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
S@BTodd
So very odd that Verizon do not themselves suggest that Digital Voice is availabl eat every location where the FiOS internet service is offered? WHat do you know that they don't?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
^^^ That made as much sense as a drunk fool trying to say tongue teaser 3 times fast.

They do state it is available very clearly once you start the order process for any area where fios is available and enter a zip code. Its a standard web page and states "You are in a Fios capable area have you considered Fios Digital Voice"
It then lists all the services Fios areas can have.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Its only non-fios areas that cant have Fios digital voice, in those cases you have to pay for an additional telephone pacakage as it involves a conventional telephone line like most of us here in the UK have. My god thats 3 people now that have tried to explain this to you, i can only assume you cant navigate a webpage.
Posted by New_Londoner over 6 years ago
@CB
So please explain why the VERIZON web site states regarding Digital Voice:

"It's fully integrated into all FiOS systems, from ordering to support, and is now available in MANY areas where you can get FiOS Internet and/or FiOS TV"?

Not my opinion, its what VERIZON states on its own web site!

Rather than being abusive, suggest you just answer the question, have posed it repeatedly, you and "BTodd" appear unable to offer a convincing explanation, hence don't answer the question.

Look forward to your reply. ;-)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Ive answered your question, wherever there is FIOS you can get the digital voice service.

Ive pointed out what you have to do, btodd pointed out what you have to do and so did another user whos comment has been removed because you probably reported it as it contained swearing in your direction.

If you had the ability to enter a zip code as ive told you a quantzillion times now you would see that... It clearly states during the order process of any FIOS service other than digital voice (IE TV and internet)... CONT
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
"You are in a Fios capable area have you considered Fios Digital Voice".... Where there is FIOS there is the digital voice service, unfortunately you cant explore a website in full. Thats not an insult thats a fact.
Maybe they havent updated the Shockwave flash bits you are reading and the small imaged text. But nah you couldnt think of that on your own.
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