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BE want fibre broadband feedback
Friday 16 July 2010 13:08:07 by John Hunt

BE broadband have enjoyed being at the forefront of broadband speed for some time, being one of the first providers to offer faster services using ADSL2+ which can provide up to 24meg broadband (something that BT are still in the process of rolling out years later). They lost the top spot in speed to Virgin Media when the launch of their 50meg broadband product in December 2008, dropped BE back to second place. There haven't been any great revolutions in speed since at BE although a bonded broadband product is available which can offer up to 40meg broadband, but it requires two phone lines.

BE are aware their customers want fibre based broadband (FTTC/FTTH), and admit to being quiet on the subject, but a blog post yesterday from Tom Williams, Managing Director, talks of what they are looking in to and planning.

"We really want to offer you a fibre solution. We want to keep providing faster and faster speeds. However, we can't afford to lay our own fibre network (unless, of course, Alex agrees to sell his collection of antique Happy Meal toys). Right now, we're looking at the wholesale products available.

If we do this, then there's likely to be some initial restrictions on what we can offer in terms of speed, support, and the general customer experience. But, for many of you, it will be faster.

Whatever we offer, it won't be perfect straight away – though it will improve over time. We want to get your input while we're investigating the options: we want to build the BE fibre product around you as much as possible. So, we've got a survey. We'd appreciate it if you could fill it out."

Tom Williams, (Managing Director) BE Broadband

The survey asks what you currently have from BE and what you'd like to receive from them in the future as well as your views on how things should be priced and the current fibre offerings available from other providers. The Great Be Fibre Survey is aimed at existing BE members but they do currently have a 2 month free offer if you are looking to sign up. More details on BE products here.

Comments

Posted by ceedee over 6 years ago
By limiting the survey to existing BE customers, they'll miss the huge opportunity of hearing from current VirginMedia customers who'd jump at the chance of an alternative supplier.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Good on them for actually having the sense to ask what people want rather than rollout something no-one wants (yet)
Posted by kadison44 over 6 years ago
I filled it out (I'm on O2). I'm happy with my 10Mb speed at the moment but if BT wholesale are going to accept 20Mb minimum it's just not worth changing to this 'new tech'. BT will get left in the dust again so Be need to look at alternatives.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Well they've said they can't afford to do it themselves. What's wrong with a 20Mb minimum? There's no point putting all this in for any less surely
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
I agree that the 20Mb figure is disturbing - I said as much on the survey. OTOH I *think* that would only apply to WB(M)C. Presumably if BE went the GEA route there'd be no such minimum speed.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
Just to clarify:I took that to mean that it would be considered normal for a wholesale solution might down at times to 20Mb/s. The main reason I stick with Be isn't so much the speed (I don't actually download much, prolly less than a couple of GB a month) but the fact that I always get my full 'whack' no matter when I want it.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Hmm I'm not sure what kadison44 means now then? I read his comments as BT Wholesale are selling it with a minimum connection speed of 20Mb, i.e. you can't buy FTTC and have it limited to a 10Mb connection and sell it on as a cheaper option.
Posted by haydnwalker over 6 years ago
The Survey ISNT limited to BE customers. I'm a VM customer and just missed out the first question about my BE product. It let me carry on the survey regardless and the other questions were pertinent.
Posted by kadison44 over 6 years ago
GMAN99, my issue is that BT is selling fibre at 'up to' 40Mb and when you pay out the install money and the increased monthly fees, receiving 20Mb down your line won't cause BT to bat an eyelid. FTTC at least is still the same lottery of connection speed we have with ADSL. I may as well stick with my current 'up to' 24Mb package until something a lot better can be guaranteed.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Gotya... well its a fair point. Better upload speeds tho... up to 10 and up to 15 later. I expect over time with FTTC whoever you buy it from won't cost much more than ADSL2+
Posted by tommy45 over 6 years ago
Same in my case due to outside noise/interference from nearby property fttc would not be of any benefit,unless bt sorted out the bit to my home, also upload speed why to they always ignore the requests for faster uploads
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
What do you mean tommy, the upload speed is faster. up to 10Mb up, up to 15Mb at a later date. The upload speeds are faster than many people's downloads including my own!
Posted by Scubaholic over 6 years ago
20Mb for me would only add 5Mb to my current speed & BT want a connection fee & double the money, I don't think so!
Funny I asked Be about 6 weeks ago about fibre plans & they said they didn't have any.
What upload speed would be offered?
BT seem to restrict you to a pathetically low download limit let's hope Be greatly improves that.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
^^ Similar position to you Scubaholic i get around 18Mb, have no interest at all for overpriced wholesale BT products, especially when its not guaranteed i would see any significant speed increase. Did the BE survey myself and made it quite clear, im happy to pay a lot more than i currently do per month (2-3 times more) but in return i expect a service 2-3 times better, not similar, not silly monthly caps, not stupid P2P and similar traffic shaping. If any company wants me to pay more they have to offer something thats worth my money, wholesale FTTN as it stands isnt.
Posted by tommy45 over 6 years ago
Yeh, i would not touch bt's infinity or any fttc/ftth if it shaped/throttled anything,or capped usage,as there would be no point of benefit in paying the price for such , what i ment about the isp's failing to recognize that people need to upload at a reasonable speed too,with current adsl bb, fiber it may go to 15mb, but if you can d/load at 100mb then that becomes slow why not give you the same or 50% of the speed you can download at?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
The uprate on Wholesale and what BE may end up offering may not even be the UPTO 10Mb product...... Doesnt option one (the stupid 40gig cap option) have a lower uprate? I freely admit i may be wrong on that, but if right its possible you wouldnt even get the product with 10Mb up speeds.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Surely when its wholesaled its up to the ISP how its shaped/capped etc? No control over the top sync speed of course but after that the ISP would dictate usage. Surely a BE FTTC would be a winner if its done like their ADSL2+ package now? I expect BE/O2 and Sky could do a great version of it.
Posted by CJT-80 over 6 years ago
I've just taken the survey, and I recommend regardless of the ISP you use, or your friends use you/they take the survey!
Posted by bosie over 6 years ago
I wouldn't buy a BT product even through a reseller - too many restrictions, too little innovation. At zero cost I would still turn my nose up.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
At zero cost? Well that's pretty stupid
Posted by otester over 6 years ago
£90 for unlimited 40/10Mb with Idnet.

I guess it really depends how bad your current connection is via BT-based products but if you have 10Mb+ already then it's not worth it.

Has BT FTTC-ed any M1 exchanges yet?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Surely a BE FTTC would be a winner if its done like their ADSL2+ package now? I expect BE/O2 and Sky could do a great version of it."
Not if its wholesale from BT it wouldnt as they like all currently are at the mercy of what BT charge. ADSL2+ removed (to an extent) those limitations, until something similar happens with FTTN services i dont see any better or cheaper services.
Posted by kamelion over 6 years ago
It won't be a resold BT product. It will be the FTTC product sold wholesale. Once the traffic is taken to the exchange it will be routed over BE infrastructure. The price difference will come in through negotiations between BTW and BE for the fibre part from cabinet to exchange. I am happy with my current speed from BE but there are a lot of people who would jump at the chance of 20 meg minimum
Posted by kamelion over 6 years ago
I'm only interested if I can get more than my current speed at a pro rata amount with no restrictions on how I use my bandwidth. To be honest the 100 GB that BT offer at the price they are charging would suit me down to the ground but I'm not a fan of "traffic shaping" I'm not interested what % of users ISP's blame for them not having enough capacity so if BE could offer me higher upload and download speed within a reasonable fixed limit I would be happy
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
But the choices for BE are:- do it themselves (they've said they can't afford to) or suck it up and pay for wholesale. So it might not be as cheap as they'd like but apart from that its up to them what they do with it?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"It won't be a resold BT product......... The price difference will come in through negotiations between BTW and BE for the fibre part from cabinet to exchange."

Biggest contradiction ever.

@GMAN99 you are correct with your last post, If i were bethere id save the money for now. LLU ADSL2+ probably has lots of heavy users and BT wholesale fibre just wont suit them.
Posted by herdwick over 6 years ago
BT Openreach do the FTTC and Be could interconnect with them by ethernet in exchanges where Be have presence.

LOL @ you lot all going off one one 'cos the posting said "wholesale" lower case and instantly triggering the pyschotics into a froth about BT Wholesale.

Of course FTTC will be faster sync than ADSL2+ otherwise Openreach don't enable it as they have a minimum speed spec.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@CB:It doesn't have to be BTw WB(M)C. It can be BTor and GEA. That is basically the same as LLU now except that FTTC enabled lines will have higher speeds.
Posted by CaptainHulaHoop over 6 years ago
If you get 10 meg or higher on ADSL2 chances are fttc would give you near 40meg sync due to the big cut in line length. And if it was vllu product it would be unrestricted from house to Hanover point at exchange and then use cp's infrastructure from there
Posted by CaptainHulaHoop over 6 years ago
So any restrictions would be down to them
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Of course FTTC will be faster sync than ADSL2+ otherwise Openreach don't enable it as they have a minimum speed spec."

So if you have a bethere line that gets 22Mb and for whatever reason when a engineer turns up for your FTTC it only syncs at 20Mb, are you trying to tell me they wont enable it? I cant see any company turning down enabling connections which cost the end user more per month.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB:It doesn't have to be BTw WB(M)C. It can be BTor and GEA. That is basically the same as LLU now except that FTTC enabled lines will have higher speeds."

This quite clearly is wholesale BT based FTTC based on the speed specs and questions asked in the survey. I cant think of any other company that offer a service which has a minimum rate of 20Mb and a max of 40Mb. Obviously BT based.
Posted by CaptainHulaHoop over 6 years ago
There is a difference between BT wholesale and openreach. Fttc is a openreach product, with up to 40meg sync. If they choose to then use BT wholesale for backhaul rather than their own network that's their choice.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
"I cant think of any other company that offer a service which has a minimum rate of 20Mb and a max of 40Mb." - As no-one else in the UK is offering FTTC thats an easy ones?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"There is a difference between BT wholesale and openreach. Fttc is a openreach product, with up to 40meg sync. If they choose to then use BT wholesale for backhaul rather than their own network that's their choice."

Theres no difference for end users or the ISP that still have to line BTs pockets and provide a horribly limited service, bethere obviously know it also or they wouldnt ask what we are willing to pay and ask about monthly caps.
Posted by herdwick over 6 years ago
if ADSL from the exchange syncs at 22M then VDSL from the cab will be way faster, so it's a dumb question TBH.

Obviously it is the Openreach service, but what says it is anything to do with Wholesale (apart from paranoia and other psychological issues).

Why exactly will they have to provide a limited service, dickhead ?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
1 BT based FTTC does not guarantee more, just because you may get 22Mb on ADSL2+ LLU doesnt mean you will get more via a BT based FTTC service, you could only get 20Mb i admit its UNLIKELY but technically thats possible so not a dumb question.

Arguing whether its openreach or whatever part of BT supply it is stupid its BT supplied and thats the end of that.

It will be limited compared to Betheres LLU, BT based FTTC whoever you get it from has caps and throttles.

Oh and quit the name calling, otherwise ill start being rude and all the fanboys will start crying.
Posted by CaptainHulaHoop over 6 years ago
from what i have been told fttc from openreach gives 15meg uncontended to the handover point at exchange, then anything else you get is contended.
from the handover point if you go a VLLU service any traffic shaping/throtling etc. will be down to the llu cp. BTWS won't have anything to do with the circuit
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@CB:Nothing has been announced yet. We don't know what Be are offering. The purpose of the survey is to gauge people's reaction to costs and restrictions.

Once they have that information they will decide which service (if any) to go for.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@CB:"It will be limited compared to Betheres LLU, BT based FTTC whoever you get it from has caps and throttles.".

Not true!

If they go for BTor GEA there will be no limits other than availability same as their current LLU service.

That is also Be operating a service over BTor equipment and it's one of the best broadband services in the country.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
FTTC from BTOR gives full line rate uncontended from cabinet to L2S Hula.
Posted by c_j_ over 6 years ago
"If they choose to then use BT wholesale for backhaul rather than their own network that's their choice."

It'll also be their own funeral. BT is not one big company (apart from when it suits them).

Openreach on the whole deliver what they're supposed to (e.g. without Openreach links between nearby exchanges there'd be no widely available LLU).

BTwoolsale, on the other hand, are a bunch of idiots with a ten year+ record of incompetence (just ask AAISP).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB:"It will be limited compared to Betheres LLU, BT based FTTC whoever you get it from has caps and throttles.".

Not true!

If they go for BTor GEA there will be no limits other than availability same as their current LLU service."

A link to a BT (any BT division) based HOME FTTC product that is truely unlimited with no P2P traffic shaping please..... I know of NONE.

BT have even admitted P2P traffic will be shaped and admit "unlimited" isnt really "unlimited".
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB:Nothing has been announced yet. We don't know what Be are offering. The purpose of the survey is to gauge people's reaction to costs and restrictions."

I agree with you AndrueC, it also indicates there is likely to be restrictions, if they knew they could afford to provide it like their LLU with no restrictions they wouldnt even have to ask peoples opinions on them. What BT are allowed to get away with charging ISPs is why this country has silly caps, etc. Until a regulator clamps down on it, BT based products will always be poor to the user and the ISP that has to buy it.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Eh? Cap's are put in place by ISP's they'd exist no matter what prices BT charged. ISP's will always want to get more for their money. If they can squeeze 5000 more customers down a rented pipe by capping/shaping them they will, I know you like to but believe it or BT aren't to blame for everything in the world. Its a cut throat market, ISP's cap because it saves them money that's regardless of what they are charged, are you so blinkered that you think they'd drop cap's if BT dropped prices?? Please....
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
So a survey means restrictions, way to make things up, that's pure speculation. They want to know what people want before committing to spending money in tough times. BE are doing the right thing, they (and anyone other that Virgin) have no broadband progression path, they've LLU'd and are stuck at up to 24Mb, they need something new to keep up so it makes sense to ask what people want up front.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@CB"A link to a BT (any BT division) based HOME FTTC product that is truely unlimited with no P2P traffic shaping please". Why? What does that have to do with Be?
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
I wonder how many people would be interested in 400Mb Virgin BB if they had the sense to ask, not as many as people wanting even the their basic offering to come to their town.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
CB - the prices for everything BT do that's broadband related are in a regulated range both up and down. The only exceptions are GEA - FTTC and FTTP.

There are products available to Telefonica to allow an 'LLU' or an 'Access' equivalent, it's entirely up to them which they run with. If they take the LLU equivalent they have control of everything bar the MSAN ports, customer traffic is delivered to them uncontended.
Posted by Dixinormous over 6 years ago
Openreach FTTC Charges - http://tinyurl.com/qb5for - the GEA Cablelink is a 1Gbps port to a switch in the exchange, the FTTC is totally uncontended to the Cablelink.

BT Wholesale FTTC/WBC price list: http://tinyurl.com/3y6wnr6

Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"Eh? Cap's are put in place by ISP's they'd exist no matter what prices BT charged."

Thats a lie..... If that were true why is it a LLU ADSL2+ user can basically do as they please where as a customer with the same ISP but on a BT based product cant? BT are the cause of caps and throttles due to the prices they charge ISPs
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB"A link to a BT (any BT division) based HOME FTTC product that is truely unlimited with no P2P traffic shaping please". Why? What does that have to do with Be?"

Id like evidence an ISP can supply BT based FTTC for home users with no caps or throttles.... If no other ISP can do it neither can Be.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Why? Because its to attract customers to their own in house product that is why where its least cost to the ISP. I suppose Virgin's traffic management is down to BT as well?
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
Why not read the Openreach documentation.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
BT documentation doesn't count... its lies an propaganda :)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"I suppose Virgin's traffic management is down to BT as well?"

Does their top end product (which is what we are talking here) have caps or throttles?

All im asking for is to be pointed to an ISP that sells us home users BTs FTTC with no caps or throttles... If its possible it shouldnt be hard to link to an ISP thats doing it and doing it for a sensible price (lets say upto £80 a month, i think £80 for a 40Mb product is more than resonable).
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
As per Somersets comments read the Openreach document, what the ISP does with it after that to turn it into a product offering is up to them.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
"If no other ISP can do it neither can Be." Huh? So you think that Be is no different to any other ISP?

Be are just the ISP to break the mould. I would say that FTTC+GEA is just the kind of product that would attract Be. It's innovative and it allows them to provide a better service than their competitors.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
(cont'd) well - innovative compared to the majority of the market anyway. Not so innovative from a technology point of view of course :)
Posted by brightd over 6 years ago
I think that it is a little unfair on BT to state:

"BE broadband ... being one of the first providers to offer faster services using ADSL2+ which can provide up to 24meg broadband (something that BT are still in the process of rolling out years later)."

BT started their roll out after BE, but in my area I will eventually get 24Mb through BT. There is no indication that I will ever be able to get any kind of land line service from anyone else at whatever speed.
Posted by Mr_Fluffy over 6 years ago
Q: What is the difference between BE and BT broadband provision?
A: BE make sure they have sufficient backhaul and capacity to keep the service essentially contention free throughout the 24 hour day.

If BT were to increase the sync rate seen by their customers to 1000Mb/s, in many places at busy times of the day downloads would still reach little more than dial up rates.
Posted by Bright over 6 years ago
@Dixinormous
I'm puzzled by your assertion that BTOR's GEA over FTTC product is uncontended to the Cablelink. My understanding is the fibre between the PCP (cabinet) and the L2S in the exchange IS contended. OR's GEA product description states:
"Within the overall Peak Information Rate for the product, a 20Mbit/s ‘Prioritisation Rate’ (PR) will also be applied. When a CP sends traffic at an instantaneous rate above the Prioritisation Rate, this traffic may be discarded if there is Openreach network congestion.”
ie under congestion each GEA customer is only guaranteed a throughput of 20 Mbit/s.
Posted by Bright over 6 years ago
Also, I guess BE has a choice between using OR's GEA product and backhauling the traffic from the exchange themselves (which is surely what they will do), or using BTW's WBC FTTC product (which also uses GEA plus BTW backhaul to one of their 20 interconnect nodes). I can't see why BE would pay BTW to backhaul this traffic. Especially as the BTW product has a minimum "best efforts" downstream throughput of either 4Mbit/s or 8Mbit/s (depending on option chosen), which isn't exactly the sort of super-fast speed BE customers might expect.
Posted by planetf1 over 6 years ago
I captured my thoughts in my latest blog post on the topic at http://cherrybyte.blogspot.com/2010/07/be-soliciting-feedback-on-future-fttc.html -- I've also filled in the survey, although I am currently with O2 rather than Be.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
@Smoerset, GMAN99, AndrueC.... Still waiting on a link to an ISP that provides BT based FTTC for a resonable price (upto £80 per month) with no caps or throttles... I say it doesnt exist, all you have to do is point to an ISP thats doing what i ask and prove me wrong to all the readers.
Im sure there are many readers that would love BT based FTTC without those limitations, just like LLU has provided for years, so dont be shy speak up.
Posted by AndrueC over 6 years ago
@CB:I don't have to do anything. The article is concerning Be and what Be might or might not do. Given their track record it seems pointless to discuss what other ISPs might have or have not done.
Posted by chrysalis over 6 years ago
wow I have read posts saying upto 20mbit FTTC is worse than upto 24mbit ADSL. umm no. FTTC will generally push speeds right up unless your line is very short anyway.
Posted by Bright over 6 years ago
@chrysalis
Which posts say UP TO 20Mbit/s FTTC??
On GEA the max downstream sync rate would be 40Mbit/s, upstream would be 10 Mbit/s (with 15Mbit/s an option in future). Actual sync rate will obviously be less. BTOR say the minimum DS sync rate would be 15Mbit/s and US rate of 2Mbit/s. And above a DS throughput (PIR) of 20Mbit/s they reserve the right to discard packets under congestion.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"@CB:I don't have to do anything. The article is concerning Be and what Be might or might not do. Given their track record it seems pointless to discuss what other ISPs might have or have not done."

So you cant link to any other ISP that can provide BT FTTC with no silly limits for a resonable price... If they cant do it neither can Bethere..... They all have to pay BT the same amount you know.
Posted by Bright over 6 years ago
@CB
Why can't BE do it? They have to pay BT OR about £8.70 a month for a FTTC tail from the exchange to the customer's premises. Then they have their own backhaul costs from there. No usage-based charges to BT.
They can do it for a 24Mbit/s tail, so why not for a 40Mbit/s tail??
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
He doesn't get how it works, he thinks other ISP's are buying what the end customer buys (us) and they re-badge it and sell it on with whatever caps/shaping BT applies. Which obviously isn't the case.
Posted by kamelion over 6 years ago
And is trying to cover his original mistak by changing it to provided by BT
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Still waiting for a link that sells BT based FTTC with no limits to home users..... Come on convert me to BT products i have upto £80 a month burning a hole in my pocket to give away to you shareholders.

I get exactly how it works the product im asking for doesnt exist and thats why BT fanboys cant provide a link to shut me up and prove me wrong. What mistake was that then kamelion, want to show me a FTTC based product in this country which isnt BT based or originally provided by BT or has any involvement from BT in any way shape or form?
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
"want to show me a FTTC based product in this country which isnt BT based or originally provided by BT or has any involvement from BT in any way shape or form?" What a stupid comment, its impossible as you know because BT own all the cabs, how can anyone else come in and provide fibre to the BT Cab? Why even ask such a question, dear me.
Posted by kamelion over 6 years ago
It's because he's an idiot. He saw my mistake about BTW , commented and is trying to cover his tracks. Any peson with intelligence would have read my post realised I was trying to say BE would do a deal for transit from the cabinet to the exchange. As usual CB can't make mistakes he would rather fight his corner
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
So im stupid and an idiot, yet neither of you can back up a single damn thing you have to say. SHOW ME THE SERVICES. YOU CANT!
quote"It's because he's an idiot. He saw my mistake about BTW , commented and is trying to cover his tracks."
Explain again why this idiot would need to cover his tracks FOR YOUR MISTAKE.
But oh no im stupid as i spotted your error? Well according to GMAN anyway LOL
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"As usual CB can't make mistakes he would rather fight his corner "
Where as BT defending idiots (yeah i can do the name calling also) like you and GMAN would sooner sit there, make mistakes, spout nonsense about BT, provide no evidence for your claims, and in general brown nose BT to the point you suffocate yourself in the stink.
Posted by kamelion over 6 years ago
I'm a BE fanboi not a BT fanboi. I wasn't defending BT at all. As usual the frothing and spitting you are doing is clouding your vision.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
^^^ Oh god if you are a BE user you can kiss goodbye to GMANs support now (well maybe not ive probably just encouraged him to support your view whatever it was more).
Posted by Somerset over 6 years ago
If people can't write in a sensible way then don't bother. Don't they realise that it does not help any discussion?

Examples - 'Any person with intelligence', 'BT defending idiots', 'BT fanboys'.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
BE's a great ISP... I don't support anyone, just to remind you whilst your language often sounds like it comes from the playground we aren't actually in it and we aren't all in separate gangs.. weird
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"If people can't write in a sensible way then don't bother. Don't they realise that it does not help any discussion?

Examples - 'Any person with intelligence', 'BT defending idiots', 'BT fanboys'."

Agreed and i hope you havent reported me, because i wasnt the one that used the term idiot first. I do use BT fanboys which personally i see no harm in, someone is free to call me a LLU fanboy because when it comes to LLU from some companies i am.... Any person with intelligence, HARDLY insulting unless you dont think you are intelligent?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"just to remind you whilst your language often sounds like it comes from the playground"

Says the person who a couple of posts back said "What a stupid comment" <<< Not playground like at all.
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
It's an odd article. Quite why anyone would not want be to supply fibre as opposed to a knackered old copper or aliminium pair is a mystery. However I'd thought there was to be no FTTC LLU so what be seem to be asking is: would you prefer to buy BT's FTTC instead of our DSL solutions, if so, we'll white label it and sell it to you (and I can well see why many people would say no thanks)
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
But it would be BE's offering Mark, so where BT might have their own FUP/monthly caps/policy on p2p on their BT ISP product, BE could offer the same connection but with differing policys the same as they have with their ADSL products now. So yes while they would be buying in a BT product they'd be wrapping it up as their own and could offer a better product by not having any shaping/cap's etc
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
quote"So yes while they would be buying in a BT product they'd be wrapping it up as their own and could offer a better product by not having any shaping/cap's etc"

If they can do that with a BT product for say £50 a month (used that as its inline with what bonded ADSL2+ can cost and similar to Virgin 50Mb pricing) Ill eat a horse.
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Well the more ISP's that take up FTTC the more cut throat pricing will appear, I'd like to hope you could get it for around that price
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Oh there is no doubt FTTC prices will come down, especially when it has been rolled out fully (or near fully).. Pricing will be like UPTO 8Mb when it was new cost a bomb, now its bottom end peanuts. At the moment though based on the price its going for and the limits the sensible priced services have, im not sold at all.
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
@GMAN - if it's not on an "LLU" basis then won't this mean that every time there's a major sporting event, be LLU would be OK, but be FTTC (reold BT product) will stop working for a few hours? That's what makes me think it's not that clear-cut - you'd be moving from a be product (just BT wires) to a fully BT product (resold)
Posted by GMAN99 over 6 years ago
Sure but I believe they could also go direct to Openreach which would be the same as BT wires (as close as you can get anyway). I think it would be like LLU except they wouldn't have to put anything in the exchange it would be handed off straight to the CP via fibre as soon as it comes into the exchange. http://www.sinet.bt.com/498v3p2.pdf I hope BE & Sky can turn this into something good.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
Personally i think give it a few years and FTTC if possible will be unbundled again like LLU is available today. I personally think Ofcom have just been kind to BT for now as they are the ones likely to spend the most getting the service out there to people, so they probably think its only fair to give them a while to claw some of the money back, which i can understand, dont necessarily agree FULLY but understand.
Posted by MarkHampshire over 6 years ago
A question occurs :-) Once a property has been upgraded to FTTC, can it still have DSL over copper and aliminimum, or does that option disappear because the physical wiring has disappeared e.g. does all the obsolete kit get removed as they go, or get left in place?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 6 years ago
^^^ I think you will find you still sub to ADSL and not take FTTC. The kit ADSL runs over doesnt just vanish, FTTC kit to cabinets gets added, they are not just ripping out cabinets, chucking everything away and shoving FTTC in their only.

Of course if you take a FTTC service then im not sure if you can have ADSL in addition to FTTC (IE both services) you certainly couldnt AFAIK on the same line, dunno if they will allow you to have a mix and match if you have 2 phone lines though.
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