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BT call for fair access to ducts
Tuesday 09 March 2010 14:54:55 by John Hunt

BT have called for equality of access following its recent announcement that it plans to open up its network of cabling ducts to competitors. The company will put pressure on Ofcom and ministers to gain access to Virgin Media's ducts which would allow it to expand its network.

"It is remarkable that those calling for open access from BT are not willing to provide it themselves. We call on others to follow BT's lead in offering to open its infrastructure and content to all on a fair basis.

Competition is a two-way street. We support Jeremy Hunt's [Shadow Secretary of State for Media] call for open access to all networks and call for others to follow our example and to open their infrastructure and services."

BT Spokesman talking to The Time

BT already cover the same areas on the access network that Virgin have deployed their cable network, but BT still rely on overhead cable access via poles in some areas. With access to Virgin's ducts, this could allow them to deploy fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP) services through these without having to rely on overhead cabling which can be more easily affected by adverse weather conditions, and couple be more costly to install.

Ofcom is expected to look through the issue of duct access in the Spring which will hopefully bring some definitive expectations of what providers will have to do. The logical solution would be to create an open access system for ducts controlled centrally which would hopefully help reduce the amount of people digging up the roads to deploy new networks where competitors ducting sits idly by. It does create some issues of resilience, however, where using different providers can at the moment often protect you from the 'digger through a cable' problem.

Comments

Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
So come on Virgin step up and open up before being forced to.
Posted by chrysalis over 7 years ago
a rare clever move by BT, so this is the real reason they opened up their ducts.

Will ofcom do the right thing for once.
Posted by adslmax over 7 years ago
Sorry BT. VM had their right to say no! I am with Virgin Media and I had no problem with it over 13 months now with 50Mbps. Always spot on and even better than crap BT ADSL up to 8Mbps (crappy ip profile rate)

Message to Virgin Media boss: Don't let BT open up your ducts - if you want to say NO, just say NO!
Posted by kamelion over 7 years ago
Who didn't see this coming?
Posted by senator1 over 7 years ago
Well Virgin bought all the ducting in my area from United Artists (every house has a duct to the gate) but have no intention of cabling it in the foreseeable future. They should give BT the chance.

Norry
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
adslmax, they can keep saying no, until Ofcom say yes - you must.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
BT had to open up its exchanges to other ISP's so they could install their own equipment = Makes perfect sense.

Ducting to be open to all ISP's = Makes perfect sense.

That's how Ofcom will see it as well I'm sure. Sorry Virgin its time to let competition in.
Posted by cyberdoyle over 7 years ago
yep, open up the ducts dear virgin and charge exorbitant rates for 'access' to repair competitor's fibres, or even better insist you do repairs ;) get the small print right and screw anyone who wants to use them. For a cheat sheet check BT's terms and conditions and small print. Easy.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
I don't see why Virgin would object as everyone wins. Other ISP's can put in a TRUE fibre network to the premises not a Fibre + Coax network. Virgin can expand their own network to the rest of the country (which they are lacking at the moment) at a much reduced cost by using BT's ducts. It makes perfect sense for all.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"BT already cover the same areas on the access network that Virgin have deployed their cable network, but BT still rely on overhead cable access via poles in some areas. With access to Virgin's ducts, this could allow them to deploy fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP)"

And that right there is the only reason for their change of attitude, they know within a year Virgins product range and speeds will be vastly superior.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Of course it is! Well to a degree anyway. BT's FTTC is quite limited and will not exceed what Virgin can provide. BT's FTTH can certainly exceed anything Virgin can currently offer but its rollout will be limited because of digging roads etc. So getting access to Virgins ducts will make FTTH easier for BT not just BT other ISP's remember this isn't all about BT, is Sky/BE/O2/etc. Virgin's coax will run out of steam at probably the 350-400Mb mark, where as true FTTH can go much further.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
..cont

That is why Virgin are worried because at the moment only they can provide high speed broadband, if they open up their ducts Virgin will be left behind because whilst others can/will deploy fibre to the premises they will still be using coax.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
Why can't VM change the coax to fibre?
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
They could if they put different kit in their cabs. But to be honest when you the race starts getting up to 300Mb or so I mean the core network just won't cope, plus there's just nothing at all that needs those speeds not at the moment. Personally I'd like to see 100Mb available as wide spread as possible and we should do whatever it takes to get there, if that means gov funding or a BB tax or a relax in the fibre tax or opening up ducts (or all of the above) lets do it.
Posted by AndrueC over 7 years ago
@Somerset:They don't have the money? They can barely keep pace with existing debt repayments as it is.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Plus is their existing fibre from their cabs to their POP's that currently feeds coax deliveries sized to take fibre to the premises in the future, doubtful. I'm not saying Virgin can't do it but it would require more investment.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
How much are BT willing to pay Virgin for use per duct? They havent been as free in the conversation about that. They also it appears want companies like talk talk to pay for their own cabling, even though companies like hat already have to pay BT for exchange space etc. Its clearly a case of BT wanting to flex its monopoly muscle again for their own benefit not the industry or customer.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Like I say, its not just about BT, its just them making the noises. Don't think for a minute that Sky and BE wouldn't be in those ducts like, well rats up a drainpipe. Sky want to trial high speed broadband so they'd love this to happen. As for paying for their own cabling sure, they can either buy rent cabling or put in their own, you think it should be free? Opening up the ducts is for all how can it not benefit the industry or customer? It benefits everyone.
Posted by searcher100 over 7 years ago
It appears some punters have a blinding (and I use the term in its literal sense) hate of certain isp's and will never see the obvious long term benefits to you and me of a truly open and level playing field.I am nearly 60 and have been through the dial up 14k modem I think even slower before that even downloading using a device you connected to the top left corner of the tv screen which utilized the bar code thats displayed by commercial channels just before advert breaks. So the world has moved on and a digital world down the fibre cable is something I have dreamed of.Dont be petty.
Posted by timmay over 7 years ago
I thought the coaxial cable was direct buried between kerb and the house. If so some digging will be required to install a fibre. There is also little point as the coaxial cable can provide in excess of 100Mbps downstream. I'll say it again but all we need is VM to provide wholesale broadband over their cable network. That way BT won't have to build FTTC along side an already existing and faster network.
Posted by Locky over 7 years ago
virgin (ntl diamond cable etc etc) should not be forced to open up they did all the work with there own money and not the public purse, bt should instead be forced to dig up the streets them selves and lay there own fibre if they want to remain somewhat competitive!
Posted by otester over 7 years ago
Difference is that BT was public property then got privatised.

VM is and always has been private.

This infact be theft if they carry this out.

**** BT, their FTTC is ****.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
I don't think the fact that BT was previously public holds any weight any more, are you trying to tell me they've been using tape and glue to keep it going since the governments huge on-going investments? From what I recall it was a shambles when the government ran it. @timmay yes some digging will still be needed but less. And we don't want to use coax, fibre is the future best to get it all done now upfront than revisit again in the future.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
It was 26 years ago it was privatised how long will people keep banging on about it, it was just an old phone service back then. They had to open up their exchanges for competition purposes so why not Virgin with their ducts? Its a private business and has been for 26yrs, I'm pretty sure when it was privatised it wasn't under the condition that once you become private your not really and we can still meddle in your affairs but not other private companies.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
..cont

Some people on here are always moaning about a level playing field, lets have it for once and not harp on about a totally different entity that existed over a quarter of a century ago.
Posted by wirelesspacman over 7 years ago
As far as I am aware, Ofcom could not force VM to open up its infrastructure unless it first had a (detailed) market review and concluded that VM had Significant Market Power. I could see VM fighting tooth and nail against such a decision.

Even if duct sharing ever did become a reality, I suspect the devil would be in the detail - access terms, rental rates etc etc
Posted by Locky over 7 years ago
like a previous poster stated it would make more sense for VM to WHOLESALE the network not allow access to ducts....
Posted by njalondon over 7 years ago
I don't understand why people are against forcing all operators to provide fair access to their ducts, it can only level the playing field for all and encourage investment in next generation services.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Why would it locky, that is what BT used to do and they were forced to open it up (LLU)
Posted by Locky over 7 years ago
vm (nynex diamond etc) had to build there own network with there own money why should bt be an exception ?
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
BT built their own network with their own money? Cisco and their kit didn't even exist when BT was privatised
Posted by Locky over 7 years ago
perhaps but bt had the telephone lines exchanges etc all in place, i wonder how much private bt had to spend on there kit ? i would hazard a guess and say no where near as much as the public purse spent on the initial telephone network? virgin never had that.. they are both private companies and should be investing on there own not trying to change competition laws to save there shareholders a few quid ?
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
"perhaps but bt had the telephone lines exchanges etc all in place, i wonder how much private bt had to spend on there kit ? " To take over the kit back then probably not much, to bring it up to what it is now, billions.... obviously. Compare apples with apples, the old telephone network was built over years, the service as it is now is nothing like it was. Again, BT aren't campaigning for access to the Virgin WAN/LAN, just the ducts, which they'd reply to in kind.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
...cont its not about saving a few quid its the least path of resistance to rolling out high speed broadband across the UK. Makes perfect sense than digging up more and more roads
Posted by Dixinormous over 7 years ago
VM built their network with their own money? Two periods of bankruptcy protection followed by huge debt for equity swaps essentially wiping out the original shareholders would disagree with you on that one.
Posted by AndrueC over 7 years ago
@Locky:'There own money'? Hardly. The bank's money. The shareholder's money. A lot of them are still waiting for a decent RoI. As for VM's coax - if it can only handle 100Mb/s then VM have a problem. Each cable connects many properties so it is contended right from the moment it leaves your house.

At least BT's FTTC is uncontended back to the exchange. You might only get 30Mb/s downstream but it's yours to do with as you please - no need to fight your neighbours for a share :)
Posted by AndrueC over 7 years ago
So both systems have their deficiencies. The one big advantage of BT's system is that at least LLUOs can use it. That means far more flexibility in pricing and usage allowances.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Exactly AndrueC, people keep seeing this as BT BT BT its not its ALL ISP's and its all good news for the customer. Open it up already.....
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"perhaps but bt had the telephone lines exchanges etc all in place, i wonder how much private bt had to spend on there kit ? i would hazard a guess and say no where near as much as the public purse spent on the initial telephone network? virgin never had that.. they are both private companies and should be investing on there own not trying to change competition laws to save there shareholders a few quid ?"

Exactly, Virgin got to the stage they are on their own, let BT do the same instead of crying like babies like they always do and wanting cheap solutions.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Maybe Virgin dont want to use BT ducts. ISPs for too long have been held ransom to BTs demands, charges etc etc. I personally dont want to see the UKs biggest cable system also go down the pan due to BT. I also suspect BT have more evil plans ahead, first get duct access then pinch a bit more. They have been crying like girls for a while about wanting to improve rubbish old BT vision with Sky channels. I wouldnt trust BT further than i could throw them, they never wanted duct sharing previously and they only want it now cos they see benefits for there self.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
If they want Sky channels and want ducts, make them damn well pay for it like others have had to there self. Instead like thieves in the night they want to profit from others hard work.
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
VM network sits on the economic prime cuts of the NGA market and therefore presents a major detterent to others coming in and investing. However, why would anyone lay new ducting if your competitors would just rush in and fill them?

Duct access should, perhaps, be limited to the "Final Third" areas where companies like Vtesse can get broadband out to the market towns instead of further focusing the arms race on an area the market will deliver to. This would also limit the damage to BTs business which has to manage a network no economically rational company would ever build.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Why would they go down the pan due to BT? And if we are talking about profit from others hard work, isn't that a bit rich? That's a perfect example of LLU. Why are you so against it? Its just ducts, if other ISP's put in a better cheaper service that Virgin does.. tough, its called competition. You need to see past your hatred of BT and see what it means for the customer.
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
Regarding VM wholesaling the network but it didn't work with BT pre-functional separation. It took the formation of Openreach and legislation to force BT to provide wholesale access at a rate that allowed other companies to make a profit.

VM is too small to undergo functional separation.

I agree it would make more sense than duct access PROVIDED the wholesale access was provided at a competative rate.
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
GMANN99 - I don't hate BT. I recognise the face it's managing a huge network a large portion of which is unprofitable. VM would never build BTs network because it wouldn't be economcially rational to do so. BT faces competition in its profitable areas and yet is expected to maintain in unprofitable.

My point was, to encourage NGA roll out BT duct unbundling should be limited to those areas which are on the market's margin.

I DON'T think it fair to open up BT but not VM, my argument is duct unbundling in the PRIME locations will slow investment.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
I was talking to CB, he has an ongoing hate campaign at BT
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
And yes I agree, BT are in a terrible position in that because they have to provide a phone service to all properties people assume and expect they must also do the same for broadband, which of course they dont
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
Oh...alright...sorry, well for what its worth in principle I agree with you but I have reservations about the end result - that's the problem of having a broadband network which emerged from the nationalised legacy network.

People need to get passed the BT = bad menatility and recongnise the economic realities of BT's business model. We should neither love nor hate BT - just understand it. Based on that rural customers should be BT's biggest proponents- I'll now duck for cover....
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
People would rather just hate them. Since the changes where you could go to another phone provider using BT lines and other ISP's using BT lines/exchanges they must be losing money in a lot of areas, some places just won't be profitable any more but they have to keep it running all the same. All Virgins areas are profitable as only Virgin can use their own network
Posted by terrybyatt over 7 years ago
Virgin probably have an inbuilt resistance to offering assistance to other companies. Why? Because their sucess has been hard won by difficult battles against organisations that wanted them to fail. Just look at their historic battles with British Airways and the record industry as an examples!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"You need to see past your hatred of BT."

Nothing to do with hate, If BT want things let them pay for it like others have to.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"And yes I agree, BT are in a terrible position in that because they have to provide a phone service to all properties people assume and expect they must also do the same for broadband, which of course they dont"

FALSE BT do not have to provide phone services to people I proved that here....
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/3806985-a-bt-spokesman-said-customers-are-already-using-100mbps.html
Another example also of BT wanting to profit from others investment.
Posted by otester over 7 years ago
@GMAN99

It's keeping the system behind, they should have had the network stripped from them upon privatisation, operates as open access, profits go into upgrades.

At the moment we just have a broken monopoly.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
If BT care so much about the users and not there own profits, why do they charge LLU companies rental for space in exchanges? Why do they charge other ISPs so much for bandwidth it has killed many small providers (Another example Plusnet used to be independant that got gobbled up by BT)
Why is it BT until now never allowed access to their ducts??? That would have saved Telewest/NTL alot of money and benefitted the consumer.
BTs ideas good for the consumer? Dont make me laugh.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
BT are all take, they want Sky to make sky sports available cheaper for their BT Vision service, obviously to make more profit when they flog it to consumers. BT want to take fees from LLU providers that provide people with upto 24Mb speeds and have done for years, yet BT have only started to offer ADSL2+ within the last year or so....... Now they have their eyes on raping Virgin media also using their ducts to undercut them with substandard 40Mb in Virgin areas..... Good for the consumer my bottom.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
Why should BT not charge for exchange space? ISPs started up knowing the costs of running a business. Small ones were bound to find it difficult unless they they had something unique to offer against the likes of O2 and TalkTalk.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Im not saying they shouldnt pay somerset im saying if BT want us all to believe they want duct access to make things better for consumers to explain why LLU providers have to pay for exchange space, surely if it was free there would be more of them and thus more choice for the consumer. Also who says BT even wants to pay Virgin for their ducts, i havent heard BT mention anything about money or being willing to pay.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Heres a better idea for OFCOM and fairness and better for the consumer......

Tell Virgin to make their network wholesale like BT is, and at the same time tell BT they are not allowed in Virgin areas...... There thats real choice and fairness, puts them both on an even footing then. You watch if BT do get OFCOM to say yes and Virgin have to share their ducts, mark my words i bet BT still beehatch about the cost they have to pay Virgin per duct. Peddling the myth this is for the consumer and not BT thinking of ways to save money is pathetic.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
CB I don't think you understand what Im saying. I'm sure BT HAVE to provide a phone service to every household in the UK, this is something that goes back years. As for giving free exchange rental I've simply no idea what you are talking about there. Would you rent part of your own house for free? If a small ISP can't afford their own premises you rent, that's the same in any business. You have some crazy ideas I'll give you that, none of them sound business ideas but crazy all the same. BT not allowed in Virgin areas, again.. how is that fairness.... Read before rant.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"CB I don't think you understand what Im saying. I'm sure BT HAVE to provide a phone service to every household in the UK"

Nope, please start reading links i give.

quote"As for giving free exchange rental I've simply no idea what you are talking about there. Would you rent part of your own house for free?"

You agree then Virgin should charge BT to use their ducts? You also realise BT have made no statement saying they are willing to pay???
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
Clearly there has to be rental for use of duct, poles and exchange space. Also it won't be a local group putting new fibre up over the weekend in BT or VM ducts but proper contractors who know what they are doing (at a cost).
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
I'll have a proper read tomorrow but yes its the USO I was referring to, without it BT wouldn't have to be in places they aren't profitable in. I'm not talking about BB just in general, they could probably close 100 exchanges tomorrow if it wasn't for the USO.

Virgin should charge yes of course, any ISP BT, BE, O2 for using their ducts. I wouldn't expect anything less, its their property.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
I wonder why BT havent stated they are willing to pay?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"I'll have a proper read tomorrow but yes its the USO I was referring to, without it BT wouldn't have to be in places they aren't profitable in."

For broadband there is no current obligation for BT to provide to anyone. For voice lines they only have to provide if its costs under a certain amount, over that they dont have to and can charge people silly amounts like £22,000 as in the story i mention.... BT TECHNICALLY are NOT obligated to supply anything when you look at things carefully.
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
I'm sorry perhaps I missed the point Carpteburn. I followed your link and can't see how you've proved Openreach isn't legally required telephone line, you appear to be talking about broadband not telephones.

Perhaps I'm on the wrong page of the thread? I've read through 3.

A telephone connection is a legal entitlment.
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
Right okay, got it...
Posted by dch3dwj over 7 years ago
"I wonder why BT havent stated they are willing to pay?"

I think the point BT was making is that it want parity with the other communication providers. That's pretty clear from the context. So far nothing has been put forward for access to BTs duct network.

The problem that will follow duct access is how the price will be set so others can competativley use the infrastrucure.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
"For broadband there is no current obligation for BT to provide to anyone" Totally agree I'm not saying their is an USO for BB, only for voice , what I'm saying is two things. Firstly because people have to have a phone line provided (to start with) by BT under USO they also expect broadband and a decent speed when in fact BT aren't obliged to provide it. People assume its up to BT to sort out, it isn't.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Secondly if the USO was pulled tomorrow BT could shake up with network and pull out of areas that make no money, there must be a load of exchanges where they make nothing but have to keep them on for the sake of the USO.
Posted by rasczak over 7 years ago
OK I tried but I just couldn't help myself, I have to correct more of Carpetburn's incorrect information. Nowhere has it proved that BT do not have to provide a single residential line where requested. The story referred to is where a second business line was requested, the person already had a line to the premises, and other providers wouldn't even quote for the job.
Posted by rasczak over 7 years ago
Carpetburn is also trying to say that BT want access to ducts for free while charging others rental for LLU. Nowhere do BT state that they want free access, just access. They may not explicitly say that want to pay, but neither do they say that don't.
Of course Carpetburn will shrug this off as just a BT defender, if it wants to think that then fair enough it can keep the delusions, I just want the truth rather than bias.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
CB - Where installation of a new line costs £3,400 or less, BT sets a standard charge. Where installation will cost over £3,400, BT requires the customer to pay the excess costs (plus its standard connection charge). Ofcom has concluded that a threshold is a sensible approach and that the £3,400 level is reasonable.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
^^^ Which means they are not obligated to provide voice.... If they were obligated they would have to provide no matter what the cost is.
That basically says anything above x cost = we dont have to do it. Thus they dont HAVE to provide phonelines or voice do they? Pretty simple, below £3,400 they will hook you up, above £3,400 they wont unless you pay. Who determines the cost for installing the line..... Thats right BT. No obligation there at all.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"Carpetburn is also trying to say that BT want access to ducts for free while charging others rental for LLU. Nowhere do BT state that they want free access, just access. They may not explicitly say that want to pay, but neither do they say that don't."

Or in other words i could end up being right.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
or wrong....
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
CB - and other telcos want free access to BT ducts?

CB - obligated up to £3400, as we all knew.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"CB - and other telcos want free access to BT ducts?"

Do they? Ive seen no interest from others to use BT ducts.

quote"CB - obligated up to £3400, as we all knew."

An oximoron you are either obligated or you are not. BT also decides if its going to cost more than £3400. They are not forced in anyway whatsoever to provide a voice line. In theory there is nothing to stop them from saying every line will cost more than £3400 and not connecting anyone... No obligation at all.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Its like me saying im obligated to give money away freely as long as it does not exceed £0.00
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
CB - "Ive seen no interest from others to use BT ducts.
" So why are Ofcom looking at it?

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/discussnga/presspeech/infra.pdf
Posted by Capn over 7 years ago
If BT allow access to their network then others should return the favour in kind. Atleast that's what I thought the agreement was about. It's the 21st century and about bloody time we started realising that internet connections are utilities and are very important to the success of this country.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"CB - "Ive seen no interest from others to use BT ducts.
" So why are Ofcom looking at it?

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/discussnga/presspeech/infra.pdf"

You would have to ask them, i suspect your answer will be because BT suddenly want to share so ofcom being the regulator are looking at it...... As i said I know of no companys interest in using BTs ducts, if Virgin wanted BT ducts (As an example only) Im sure that would had made news on this site just as BTs Interest has.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"If BT allow access to their network then others should return the favour in kind. Atleast that's what I thought the agreement was about."

If BT had anything Virgin were interested in id agree. If BT have nothing Virgin wants though i dont see why they should have to give BT things they want. If you did that to everry part of the small amount of business left in this country we would completely kill it.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
My business uses alot of electric, so how about i get the electricity free if i kick up a fuss? Even if i have nothing the electricity company wants in exchange.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
CB BT have plenty Virgin want they have reach they have road ducting to most of the country Virgin don't? Its about coverage. BT have plenty of coverage at lower speeds, Virgin have much less coverage at higher speeds. The difference is that BT will have the money to pump into Virgin's ducts to take advantage. I don't believe Virgin have much money to expand even if ducting is offered up
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"CB BT have plenty Virgin want they have reach they have road ducting......"

I dont think they do want it or otherwise they would be in favour of sharing, which obviously they are not.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
BT have plenty to offer whether Virgin want to take it up is another matter yes.

Its a bit of a poison chalice on one hand they could (if they had the funds) vastly expand their network at a lower cost. On the other hand they let in the competition which could lead to a decline in customers even ultimately... their demise.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
^^^ Exactly so the logical business move is to say NO. I totally agree it could also end up benefitting them, but if a decision could at the same time also kill your business, you dont take it, unless desperate. Given virgin are trying to expand and providing ever increasing speeds i dont think they are at the stage where they need to take a massive gamble and hope for the best.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
BIG stretch here but maybe its BTs idea, get into Virgin areas, pinch all the customers, kill Virgin off. Buy whats left of them up cheap, grab a cable TV service, scrap BT Vision and dictate to sky a bit more about prices for access to certain sky TV channels.
Obviously though even i admit that is maybe reading between the lines waaaaay too much.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Well if its crossed your mind (and it did mine also) I'm sure they've also thought the same thing
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Hehe Its a shame really if BOTH Virgin and BT had not from time to time acted like complete silly bottoms, they both could probably reach some agreements which would help customers and the services they could provide, this though to me doesnt and its just another silly game (by BT this time) to try and get one-upmanship so to speak.
Posted by daryah over 7 years ago
i do hope the industry sorts out something so that all telco lines go through ducts. Doesn't seem like anyone here has spotted the great upside to duct sharing. **We get rid of those horrible looking wooden poles with cables flying in every direction to the top of peoples homes** Having a home in a London brough that is being served by a pole I can tell you that I am less then impressed with the nature of how my telecom cabling is running. Being open to the environment you can also get squirrels running up and down the cable sometimes having a nibble.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
And with cable underground a workman can cut through it.... Cable damage no matter how it is ran can and does happen.

Also you say you live in London, id take the squirrel nibbling the odd cable above months if not years of even worse congestion as they move every phone cable underground.
Posted by josh22 over 7 years ago
I think everyone should be served by at least one Fibre Optic Cable outside of the premises ie FTTC or FTTH then everyone can access a Next Generation Broadband product through BT, H20 or Virgin Media and all networks should be opened up to all providers, so that Superfast Broadband can be installed into villages and Rural areas as well as urban places and everyone can have some competition as well to drive down prices
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