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Uproar over fibre cabinets in St Albans
Friday 05 March 2010 13:32:18 by Andrew Ferguson

Many people complain about slow broadband, but with the Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) roll-out requiring new street cabinets in addition to the existing ones, the issue of street clutter is surfacing more and more. St Albans seems to be the latest area to have problems with locating the new cabinets - The Herts Advertiser 24 has more detail on what is happening.

There is a duality to this as many people are clamouring for better/faster broadband, but to improve the communications infrastructure in the UK requires work being carried in our streets. The old green telephone cabinets have been in the same location for so many years, that many are now receding into the background, the new Openreach cabinets are alas larger and with new paint will be very obvious, and the last few years has seen a rise in people complaining about street clutter.

Openreach in theory has three options for the FTTC cabinets, but is favouring the larger cabinet, probably because it gives better capacity for expansion in the future. Smaller options such as a box mounted on top of an old cabinet, or a sleeve going over an existing cabinet are possible, but these are probably only envisaged for cabinets which serve a smaller number of lines. Even where fibre to the home is being installed using the sewers, there is still the need for a small trench crossing a property to get the fibre into the building.

The issue of conservation areas will also impact on FTTC coverage, as it did in Muswell Hill, St Albans and other places. BT has code powers that means outside conservation areas they do not need planning permission. The problem is that the ideal location may be in the conservation area but many of the properties are outside it. More expensive solutions of course are possible, such as waterproofing hardware so that it can be located underground, but this makes general maintenance more expensive.

Comments

Posted by brutos over 7 years ago
You just cant please these people yet the continue to complain about slow speed
Posted by cyberdoyle over 7 years ago
FFS, bring them out here, we would love them... hundreds of us on dial up.
Posted by kadison44 over 7 years ago
Extra off street parking? You mean you want to park your ice cream van on the verge where the BT box will be.

It's not blocking anything which he owns and I bet the neighbours would rather see a BT box there than a churned up verge and a clapped out van!
Posted by otester over 7 years ago
I think BT should just walk when they get this **** and put the area to the back of the queue.
Posted by Drefsab over 7 years ago
Just don't install them and move on, then pull standard broadband service from the area and everyone that complain's about having to go back to dialup/3g can be directed at the people that stopped the FTTC install :D
Posted by otester over 7 years ago
@Drefsab

Nothing like a good old fashioned mob lynching!
Posted by stixjohno over 7 years ago
Make them wait until they are the last ones in the country to get it.

What is the matter with people these days.

There'll be even more uproar then.

IDIOTS
Posted by AndrueC over 7 years ago
@brutos:What makes you think that the people complaining about the cabinets are the same people complaining about slow access speeds?

There are enough people in most towns to encompass a wide variety of tastes and opinions and not everyone wants faster broadband..or even wants broadband at all.

I say well done to residents for standing up to BT and trying to protect their neighbourhood. At least it shows a little local pride.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
I totally agree with you AndrueC. The article mentions BT dont need planning permission in NON-conservation areas (I bet other providers like virgin and i3 do) The article also mentions alternatives BT could use, but wont due to cost. Not everyone wants broadband and public opinion as a whole should be listened to. Why should BT for instance be allowed to shove a cabinet right outside a persons house with no permission needed? Some areas even having rules on where you can shove those ugly green wheelie bins, i dont see why BT with their ugly green cabinets should be any different.
Posted by Norest over 7 years ago
I agree with Drefsab! Let the Luddites have 56k and see how long it takes them to change their minds. Might as well give the cabinets to people who want the service. Back of the Q for St Albans :D
Posted by stevecrang over 7 years ago
Too many townie NIMBYs who want everthing their own way including superfast broadband but don't want the visual impact of a large cabinet near their property (heaven forbid it might knock £000's off the value!)

Posted by Rocklett over 7 years ago
BT have no choice, the cabinets have to be bigger, the electronics (DSLAM/MSAN with enough VDSL2 slots to service the expected take up + power) that used to be in the exchange now have to be located within the cabinet.

stevecrang - the value of your house is likely to increase if the potential buyer knows superfast broadband is available, a recent survey of house buyers revealed broadband enabled houses can expect higher sale prices than non connected houses.
Posted by wirelesspacman over 7 years ago
@Carpetburn

Any operator with code powers would have the same powers as BT regarding not needing planning permission in non-conservation areas.
Posted by dparr59 over 7 years ago
When I worked for royal mail they had to apply for planning permission for extra pouch boxes for postmen to leave and collect mail from. Planning permission could take up to 3 months.
And then the got vandalized and looked a right mess after a short space of time.

Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"BT have no choice, the cabinets have to be bigger, the electronics (DSLAM/MSAN with enough VDSL2 slots to service the expected take up + power) that used to be in the exchange now have to be located within the cabinet."

BT do have a choice it says so right in the story.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"@Carpetburn

Any operator with code powers would have the same powers as BT regarding not needing planning permission in non-conservation areas."

Do Virgin have theses powers though? What about i3? Or how about Mobile broadband providers, can they shove a cell tower where ever they want? I say good on areas that dont want curb side boxes and having the voice to speak out. Both sides should be listened to those that want and those that do not and a decision made which is best for the area, not just let some comms company do as they please.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/e_c_c/ecc_faq/#5

Code powers allow operators to benefit from certain exemptions under Town and Country Planning legislation and also entitles them to carry out street works under the New Road and Street Works Act 1991 without needing to apply for a licence to do so.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/e_c_c/cp_reg

Register of persons with powers under the Electronic Communications Code

•Virgin Media Limited
•Level 3 Communications Ltd
•UK Broadband Limited

Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
Cabinets can go underground if O2, Sky, TalkTalk etc. customers want to pay more.
Posted by systemx over 7 years ago
I agree with Carpetburn. These are really ugly cabs and have no place in any neighbourhood which has any pride in its apperance. I must admit to being totaly opposed to FTTC-copper to the premises, this is just a halfway solution far better to grab the bull by the horns and go for FTTP and have done with it. More expensive in the short term certinly, but a better overall solution.
Posted by KingTrip over 7 years ago
The green boxes are ugly but I wouldn't want to prevent progress, thus many cases a necessary evil.

There are alternatives, but these are going to increase the cost of provision, upkeep and could see more downtime in a fault that takes out underground equipment.

All of this is going to come from somewhere, which is our wallets.

Conservation areas are a toughy. I agree with the locals stance if they want to take it.

Wanrning: look at Virgin Medias response to properties that declined wayleave all those years ago. Not just the back of the queue, but told outright you declined, we decline.
Posted by otester over 7 years ago
BT's FTTC is **** anyways.

You just got to make sure your in a VM/i3 area.
Posted by planetf1 over 7 years ago
Sigh. And it's because of the NIMBYs no doubt we have very very poor mobile coverage on a relatively modern housing estate too.

If they start the cabinet angle round here I won't be happy!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
@Somerset
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/e_c_c/ecc_faq/#5

QUOTE"Does Ofcom have any power regarding the siting of mobile phone masts?
Mobile phone operators will normally require planning permission to erect mobile phone masts, which is the jurisdiction of Local Planning Authorities." Folloowed by several lines which basically say in some cases though we do our best to argue.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"Cabinets can go underground if O2, Sky, TalkTalk etc. customers want to pay more."

Im with ukonline and pay £24.99 per month, how much do you pay somerset? Dont even try to make it a LLU Vs BT thing.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"Sigh. And it's because of the NIMBYs no doubt we have very very poor mobile coverage on a relatively modern housing estate too.

If they start the cabinet angle round here I won't be happy!"

With BT FTTC it shouldnt make any difference, unless the cabinet is a million miles from your street, their services for now only run at 40Mb... There isnt even a need with that speed to shove a cabinet in every street in every area. It could be a couple of miles away nowhere near any residents and you should still get faster than current Upto 8Mb BT services.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Or maybe im wrong on that and BT cabinets are also useless... I know someone on a Virgin service, cabinet is something like 3 quarters of a mile aaway from his home and his 20Mb from them works fine.
Posted by btbert over 7 years ago
cable cabs have to be in about 300M of the end user , so a VM guy told me
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
^^ Not sure about that unless the person i know has a very well hidden cabinet which is closer. Infact i bet there is the odd road longer than that in the UK i cant imagine Virgin, BT or anyone else shoving multi cabs in a road just to serve a single street. Especially given the fact BT have said putting them underground would cost too much even thoough i would had thought in some areas where cabinets are often vandalised it would be cheaper in the long term... So many questions eh!
Posted by drteeth over 7 years ago
Listen to public opinion? The people that appear on Jeremy Kyle are also 'the public'.

This is what you get http://www.dhmo.org/.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 7 years ago
Remember the other cabinet options will have smaller capacity, as less space for VDSL2 line cards.

Comparing VM cab to BT cab solutions, I presume people are aware VM has coax cable to the home with a twisted pair. BT has just twisted pair - though usually two pairs to most properties.
Posted by Capn over 7 years ago
There are times when the public are wrong, this is one of them. I'd hardly call the guys house picturesque anyway
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
"I must admit to being totaly opposed to FTTC-copper to the premises, this is just a halfway solution far better to grab the bull by the horns and go for FTTP and have done with it."
FTTP will still need cabs AFAIK
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"There are times when the public are wrong, this is one of them. I'd hardly call the guys house picturesque anyway"

What you, he or anyone thinks his house looks like has nothing to do with it.
It seems more than one person in that road does not want a box right outside their home, if like some are saying there are people that dont care BT can shove it there instead. I dont see the issue, if some homeowners are happy to have a box outside there home BT can move along the pavement a few feet and shove it there.
Posted by btbert over 7 years ago
well the guy who told me that VM cabs need to be within 300M of the end user works for them as a network planner so he should know want he is on about.I think it is to do with the TV going over the coax cable.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
It wont be due to cable TV an area i used to live in kent had an old analogue only cable system, i think the company was called cablevision (they eventually folded) the nearest box was several miles away in the next town.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
@Carpetburn, but that's the thing what if all of the homeowners aren't happy and it has to be somewhere in that unhappy lots area? Your assuming that someone within a few feet will be happy to have it. People can't have it both ways, if that area does want faster BB then the cabs have to go somewhere, if they are all moaning minnies then they shouldn't roll it out there at all, but I'm sure that will be at someones expense
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
It is my understanding that the FTTC speeds drop very sharply even over a short distance of copper so if your moving cabs further and further away from the properties they'll just be different complaints, this time about the lack of speed. I can fully understand why some are complaining but something has to give somewhere and its not just one persons decision either, not when it affects the supply to a whole area.
Posted by Guest_Again over 7 years ago
Me, being kind, would offer BT to put the cabinet in my house...Right beside my PC as a matter of fact.
Some tweaking / splicing would not be done. Much. :D
Posted by chrysalis over 7 years ago
is another conservation area? ugly green thing outside window? hahahaha. Idiots. BT should say ok no problem keep your crappy slow adsl we will give the service to another area instead.
Posted by otester over 7 years ago
If I ever a neighbour threatening to "remove it himself", then I'll stand up and defend da box!
Posted by 2doorsbob over 7 years ago
how can anybody complian about street cabs ..do the people own the pavement i dont think so ..these people should just find something else to moan about ..as long as the cabs dont obstruct peoples front doors or drives ect ..would these people prefer a wacking great exchange in there back yard
Posted by Dixinormous over 7 years ago
Carpet there must have been some amplifiers somewhere on the route, that or it was being fed from an aerial down the road somewhere and distributed via twisted pair, was the operator Rediffusion perhaps?

CATV travels to homes on coax, coax loses signal, so over any distance needs amplification. Amplifiers live on poles, in pedestals or in cabinets but never seen them underground.

Even then the number of amps between customer and fibre has to be fairly low due to the distortion amplification induces on signals, so cabinets need to be fairly close.
Posted by Dixinormous over 7 years ago
Here's some nice info on ye olde MATV system that predates the CATV networks built in the 80s / 90s / 00s :)

http://www.rediffusion.info/TD.80/
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"....Your assuming that someone within a few feet will be happy to have it."

No thats what others are assuming, i stand by my original view they should ask the street first, if nobody wants it problem solved no box, if some do want it, one of them can have the box outside.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
@Dixinormous i dont think that was the company but the setup may have been similar all i know is you had a single box which did VHF - UHF or vice versa connection and you tuned each station to a seperate channel direct on the TV. There wasnt any set top box lark.
Posted by Dixinormous over 7 years ago
Yeah that sounds like that kinda thing Carpet. Those networks distributed an aerial basically and were just strung along from house to house - some amps but stuck on people's houses along the cable runs :)

CATV, sadly, needs multiple instances of amplification or deep fibre optics which means cabinets, pedestals, or kit mounted on poles.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Its a shame it was eventually killed off (must had been around 1995ish maybe a bit later) for analogue TV the picture was vgood for the time.
The company (think it changed hands a few times) supplied a large area of kent, particular in the Medway towns.
You got about 20 channels total and it was dirt cheap. I also think it was all underground atleast where i lived, there were mmanhole covers every 3-5 houses with CTV on them and the a larger covers normally on corners (probably the boosting points you mentioned) Aww the good old days :(
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
"No thats what others are assuming, i stand by my original view they should ask the street first, if nobody wants it problem solved no box, if some do want it, one of them can have the box outside." - Agree with that.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
^^^ :) I dont see whats so complicated about it be it a BT box, Virgin box or who ever it concerns... Just ask the people first, if none of them want a box in their street thats problem and solved and money (in some cases) saved. If only one person in a street is happy to have a box outside their home then shove it there... Not asking people and just turning up digging holes at the bottom of your their with no or little warning im not shocked people get upset. Id had though my suggestion for the comms providers would be common sense, obviously not.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
opps missed the word driveway should had read "Not asking people and just turning up digging holes at the bottom of your driveway with no or little warning..."
Posted by Compbck over 7 years ago
BT - If St. Albans do not want to move into the new technological world that we are still struggling to enter - please come to Enfield and help improve performance for those trying to run businesses on a miserable speed, but still be charged the cost of the higher speed rate. I know that most of my customers in the Enfield area will relish a faster speed.
Posted by toftman over 7 years ago
Please don't bother with St Albans whingers, they are not worth the hastle. Put a couple of boxes in my village of Toft where the so called broad band runs at about 300Kbs most of the time. Aty least we might get what we pay for then.
Posted by RedSquare over 7 years ago
I've got two dirty great big green cabinets outside my place. Who put them there, the water company. Has anybody complained, NO. Why 'cause it stops sewerage backing up in our homes. Please bring another large green cabinet from St Albans to our town, we will be most grateful.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
CB - utilities etc. have legal powers that mean they don't have to ask.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"CB - utilities etc. have legal powers that mean they don't have to ask."

Yep and thats wrong, they keep talking about the market and how it should be fair and competitive, mobile companies cant shove masts where ever they want, home users cant shove (depending on size) satelite dishes for broadband wherever they want, so the likes of BT, Virgin etc should also have to ask. Bt wouldnt want me putting a box saying BT are (BLEEP) outside their premesis so why should they be allowed to shove their ugly items outside peoples homes without permission?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
If we talk about other utility companies like gas or electric. People often moan about new power plants being built and often the utility company is refused permission. I really do see how hard it is for BT to knock on a few doors in a street and ask the person first if they mind a cabinet outside their home. I wouldnt let ANYONE start digging holes and placing ugly stuff outside my home without asking me first. Especially if like the person i had already been given planning permission with a condition which requires that area outside my home to be free.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
I know what your saying CB, but just for completeness outside your home isn't your property is it. That is probably the util's argument, but yes I agree in principal if anything is common courtesy, or they should put in planning permission like you say you have chance to object/have a say
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
So if the residents of Sizewell say they don't want a new power station it won't happen?

We don't own the road or pavement outside our houses. And you can't stop anyone who has permission digging up the pavement.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
ps. it's very difficult for councils to refuse planning permission for mobile phone masts.
Posted by fredforest over 7 years ago
Carpetburn. He hasn't got a condition on his home that requires that area outside his home to be free. He has a condition to provide sufficient off road parking and that doesn't include the verge. The St Albans planning page shows that it is a common condition on anyone who has built an extension in the Ridgeway. It's a common condition here where on road parking isn't too much of a problem.

Anyway this is a broadband forum not a planning forum. If they paid me rent they could put one in my garden then the village would finally get the broadband we need.
Posted by AndrueC over 7 years ago
Even if you don't have the right to stop someone building on the pavement outside your house they should still consult with you. It's called common curtesy.

I just don't understand some of. Do you have no pride in where you live? Is your part of the world so bad that it's not worth protecting?
Posted by AndrueC over 7 years ago
..contd. I live on a typical 1990s housing estate and it's not going to win any design awards. But nonetheless - it's where I live and I don't want people and companies messing around with it.

As it happens larger green boxes wouldn't be much of eyesore to my eyes but that's not the point. Residents of an area should absolutely be consulted by any organisation making significant changes to street furniture.

It's their home environment that's being changed and people have a right to have that respected.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"So if the residents of Sizewell say they don't want a new power station it won't happen?"
I dont know what i do know is they have to go through proper channels, not just turn up and build it where ever they want
quote"We don't own the road or pavement outside our houses. And you can't stop anyone who has permission digging up the pavement."
Never said we did as to stopping them, seems the person concerned has stopped BT for now.
quote"ps. it's very difficult for councils to refuse planning permission for mobile phone masts."
No it isnt one has been refused in my area 3 times.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"Carpetburn. He hasn't got a condition on his home that requires that area outside his home to be free. He has a condition to provide sufficient off road parking and that doesn't include the verge. The St Albans planning page shows that it is a common condition on anyone who has built an extension in the Ridgeway. It's a common condition here where on road parking isn't too much of a problem."
And when you park next to the cabinet which is kurb side how do you open the car door?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
@AndrueC, well said :) Some here just dont seem to comprehend the point. I have numerous boxes in my road both Virgin and BT none of them bother me and i doubt they bother anyone, they have been fitted discretly on a corner against a brick wall they were considerate in the choosen location. From what i can see in the pictures concerned in this case BT are not being considerate, and there are probably other areas in that road which wouldnt destroy a piece of grass verge or leave a person with an ugly cabinet outside.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
I also dont believe for a second everyone here would be happy with a 6ft x 4ft cabinet outside their home no matter what they say. In some locations where your front door leads straight onto the pavement BT wouldnt be able to shove the thing right in your doorway, or maybe some think they should do that also and inprison someone lol. Why they cant just use a bit more common sense with regards to this road and where residents would be happier to have the box located i have no idea. Typical BT im sorry to say.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Why is it typical BT? And why should they have had more common sense in this example. To me (an outsider) the positioning looks fine and they are well within their rights to put it there. If that homeowners wall was higher or he had a privet on top of it no-one would be batting an eyelid as the owner wouldn't be able to see it. His arguement to say its blocking access to his drive is just stupid, unless of course he regularly cuts across that patch of grass and over the pavement?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Typical BT as in not caring what the customer wants coomon sense as in large choice of where they could put the cabinet (type The Ridgeway, St Albans into google maps). With regards to higher walls etc look at google maps again. Many properties on corners have high walls or fences, there are even areas with long hedge lines (putting a cabinet near that would camouflage it better) BT havent been considerate in this matter its clear they want to put the cabinets where they please and dont care what anyone else has to say or any thought of better location.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Heck at one end of the road there is even a Small Carpark they could shove it in see nobody is upset. There is also one open bit of green the other end with no houses on it. Further on there appears to be a business park of some kind, still in the road called The ridgeway. There are loads of more sensible locations for cabinets. Also ref off road parking, in some areas the road is very narrow so if he has to park off road with that cabinet there he would no longer be able to park outside his own home, not comforting if you have a van with stock in it, even if its just Ice Cream.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
OMG ive just notice there is also a school not far from the area which looks like a business park.... My god BT put a cabinet there see business and a school benefits :rolleyes: What is wrong with them?
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
:) Sure but to be fair we (no-one on here) knows what the knock on effect of moving that or any other cab has. Like I say from what I know about VDSL (BT Infinity) the further the cab is sited from premises the lesser the speed, its drops really fast really quick. So whilst FTTH might afford the luxury of siting cabs literally out of site VDSL might not, or not without a hit on the service you get
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
For example, if the cab is located next to the pole that feeds your home then copper distance is as short as can be. If you move that cab another 10, 20, 30metres+ from the pole it feeds, your copper length increases by that same distance and your connection speed is reduced.
Posted by btbert over 7 years ago
dont these new FTTC cabs have to be close to the existing cab ? as in less then 100m ? the ones i have seen going in are right next to the existing cab.

but if BT do it some will say its wrong LOL
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"dont these new FTTC cabs have to be close to the existing cab ? as in less then 100m ? the ones i have seen going in are right next to the existing cab."

The person concerned doesnt currently have a cabinet outside and if its a case of FTTC performing better if its as close as possible to the existing cabinets, why are they not putting it there? Theres plenty of better solution for placing cabinets along the street concerned, if you look at google maps its obvious.
Posted by btbert over 7 years ago
looking at that pic the extsting cab could be as close as 5M to the left and it would not be in the pic.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"ooking at that pic the extsting cab could be as close as 5M to the left and it would not be in the pic."

They can move it 5 metres to the left then, shove it all in a single cabinet and avoid grief from a householder then, cant they?
While at the same time keeping things neater.
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
Might help is someone here did a site visit.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
I agree somerset, it doesnt look like they did though, or if they did they have gone purely for the cheapest solution (as usual) rather than the best, neat, unobtrusive solution. The road concerned is pretty long with several ideal places for cabinets, far more ideal than outside a persons home.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
"The road concerned is pretty long with several ideal places for cabinets" and what are you basing that on? Experience as a VDSL Openreach planner? Or just cosmetics.

The latter
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
^^^ So are you an engineer and know any better? No i didnt think so. You obviously havent looked at google maps as suggested, there are areas for that road where you could easily and pretty evenly place ATLEAST 5 cabinets in more camouflaged locations (and thats just from google maps and not even being on street level where there may be even more suitable areas). I doubt they would need more cabinets than that based on length of the road. Try actually looking rather than just leaping to defend BT all the time.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Its clear they just want to plonk the cabinets where its cheapest for them, rather than best for the community.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
But you comment on what you don't understand, you say there's a better site for cab just on a cosmetic basis without knowing or understanding what that means on a technical delivery level. These aren't boxes with fresh air inside they contain services, why do you think you know where they are best suited, you don't engineers do. You can only comment on how it fits in with someone's view out of their window. You don't know or understand where or why these cabs are placed where they are so what value are you adding?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
Nonsense, they could put it all underground if they wished story states this. They dont for one reason.... COST, and thats the same reason they wont put the cabs in more sensible locations, they have picked the cheapest solution, not the best for the consumer. They want the cabinet in the cheapest place possible not the best place possible.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
But how do you know if there's any cost difference (above ground). I'm sure its placed in the best position, the fact that it upsets a property owner is a bad thing (for them) but its probably the best position. I can't imagine cheapness comes into it, honestly I don't.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"But how do you know if there's any cost difference (above ground). I'm sure its placed in the best position, the fact that it upsets a property owner is a bad thing (for them) but its probably the best position. I can't imagine cheapness comes into it, honestly I don't.

They story above states clearly in black and white...
"More expensive solutions of course are possible, such as waterproofing hardware so that it can be located underground, but this makes general maintenance more expensive."
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
It is a matter of COST and what is best for BT nothing to do with best place to put things for the public or even performance.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Underground cab's cost a fortune I believe. Why aren't you asking the same to Virgin, why aren't all their cab's underground? Cost. Every business wants to be cost effective not just BT or in comms I'm talking about any business, you must surely see that?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"Underground cab's cost a fortune I believe."

Indeed like i said its about cost nothing more

quote"Why aren't you asking the same to Virgin, why aren't all their cab's underground?"

Virgin aint the company concerned trying to whack a cabinet where it isnt wanted.

Quote"Every business wants to be cost effective not just BT"

HUH a couple of posts ago you insisted the cabinet is in the "best position" and didnt think i knew it was down to cost.... you even say "I can't imagine cheapness comes into it, honestly I don't."......... Make up your mind.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Talk about splitting hairs, you really are a number. We will have to assume it is in the optimum position and not located there because the planning engineer was having a bad day and didn't like that guys house. I can't imagine it costs any more/less moving it up or down the road, burying it underground obviously does and if one option costs more than another ANY business would take the least cost. The majority of arguments you put up against BT is just normal business practice. Again your blind hatred muddy's common sense
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"Talk about splitting hairs"

Not at all, make up your mind, is it down to cost or not? Is the cabinet in the best place or not?..... You contradicted yourself, and everyone can see it.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Well if you put it like that, everything is down to cost, for any business that sells any service. I assumed that bit of common sense was already present in your mind, obviously not.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
^^^ In that case my arguement wins. The cabinet is not in the best position (unless you can prove it) but is in a position where BT are happy about the cost. Residents therefore have a right to complain as the cabinet could be placed in a better position not only aesthetically but possibly also a better position performance wise for the street. Unless you are going to try and claim the cheapest solution is the best performance and aesthetic position?
Posted by Somerset over 7 years ago
CB - you are trying to prove it's in the wrong position without knowing any facts other than a newspaper article.
Posted by GMAN99 over 7 years ago
Trolling is best left to the forums.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 7 years ago
quote"CB - you are trying to prove it's in the wrong position without knowing any facts other than a newspaper article."
Im not trying to prove that at all, im basing it on what has been mentioned in this story.It clearly states more expenive solutions like underground are possible, therefore the choice to use a cabinet in part is atleast based on cost. If nobody in that road wants an ugly cabinet and BT wont place it all underground then the decision is completely cost Orientated. Unless you can show other reason why they wont place it underground when people dont want a cabinet?
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