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VDSL2 reaches 0.5Gbps
Tuesday 17 March 2009 09:51:13 by Andrew Ferguson

While fibre can vastly exceed speeds of 0.5Gbps (500Mbps), there are many parts of the world (including the UK) where full fibre to the premises will be outnumbered greatly by the deployment of cabinet based solutions.

VDSL2 is the current candidate for any FTTC product from Openreach, and for telephone lines that are just 0.5km long from the green street cabinet to the home speeds of 100Mbps are possible. Ericsson has announced the first live demonstration of bonding together six lines all 0.5km long to produce a 0.5Gbps connection. At first this sounds simple and straight forward, but to get the most from bonding management of crosstalk needs to be carried out, and Ericsson used Vectoring which reduces noise from other VDSL2 lines in the cable bundle and potentially reduces power consumption.

For those keen to read more cellular-news.com has more on what Ericsson achieved, with VDSL2 bonding being suggested as a solution for providing backhaul from mobile phone cell towers.

Comments

Posted by Dixinormous over 8 years ago
It does beg the question though of how many people have 6 pairs going to the home, not to mention that there isn't a mainstream CPE that bonds 2 VDSL2 lines let alone more.
Add to that the amazing success that pair bonding has been with ADSL2+.
Cute technology and some applications but unlikely to help even CapEx allergic BT prolong their avoidance of FTTP/O
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 8 years ago
Sure, Dixi, but a for a business? That's a pretty nice backup for a big leased line.

And your chase after economic fairy dreams is amusing, I have to say.
Posted by lloydio over 8 years ago
by the time the engineer has run 6 lines to the premises wouldn't it be easier to just install 1 fibre to the cabinet?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
Interesting story, on the other hand pointless for us in the uk, i imagine that type of setup from BT would cost even more than very fast lease lines.
Posted by chrysalis over 8 years ago
bonding is in affect cheating (also prohibitly expensive), in theory you can bond fibre and get 5gbit and that 5gbit is full duplex, so PR can be done to try and upsell copper but end of the day it doesnt touch fibre.

What are the upstream capabilties of vdsl2? still not synchronous?
Posted by Dixinormous over 8 years ago
@Dawn nearly as amusing as your delight at paying over the odds for whatever BT feel the need to provide you. In any case I'll not discuss this stuff with you again after the waste of time previous conversation was with your failure to back up most of what you said.

Toodles!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"
What are the upstream capabilties of vdsl2? still not synchronous?"

Yep thats another thing that gets my goat, even when we are all fibre'd up it looks like the uprate will still only be a fifth or thereabouts of the max downrate. I believe i read somewhere on this site in another news items comments upstream on a BT 20Mb fibre service will be 5Mb <<< pretty stupid IMO
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 8 years ago
Great Carpet, get back to me when you've developed a xDSL protocol which will allow reasonable cost non-asynch services. SDSL isn't more expensive for fun, you know.

@Dixi - Well of course you can't defend your argument, because you don't have one. Expecting companies to spend tens of billions which will largely help their competition? Roofles.
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
lol @ CB, Asynch services are tuned for the market which they are intended, if you want Sync services then you have to pay for them, not complain about the service you have CHOSEN. Select the correct service and bite the £££ bullet without complaint.

Looking at my router I can clearly see that I have more downstream traffic then upstream, so why would I and others like me want products like SDSL instead of Async? Surely with that kind of usage I want faster download...
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
Okay foget this 0.5Gbit talk for a minuite.

VDSL can get me 100Mbps from a telephone line that is upto 500mtrs from the PCP? (the vast majority of lines), thats pretty sweet!
Posted by Dixinormous over 8 years ago
@Dawn - I did try Dawn but sadly you just kept throwing out the same nonsense which I debunked a bit at a time. Your mudslinging towards those who are making the investments was quite amusing though. I guess in your world Verizon, NTT, KPN et al should be out of business when they are *dramatically* outperforming BT.

Anyway I'll leave you to wait until at least next year for your 40Mbit... by which time I'll be on 1Gbit from one of these companies that has spent the cash. :)
Posted by Dixinormous over 8 years ago
@Dawn Come join the forums instead of imparting your short-termist wisdom here where posts are restricted to 600 characters. We can discuss some more there - plenty of threads including some on regulatory regimes which guarantee companies returns... if they are patient. You can see how some countries actually regulate instead of letting their ILEC charge as they please for an obsolete 'next-gen' network. which gives them more power over competitors than the existing ones.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"lol @ CB, Asynch services are tuned for the market which they are intended, if you want Sync services then you have to pay for them"

Yep very true in this country we do have to pay for them, because its under a clown company rule called BT. Their new fibre services are a complete joke, other places in Europe provide fibre services with the same speeds down and up for considerably less than what BT are planning to milk the stupid individuals for..... I bet you will be first in line.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"Looking at my router I can clearly see that I have more downstream traffic then upstream, so why would I and others like me want products like SDSL instead of Async? Surely with that kind of usage I want faster download..."

Surely you dont have the sense to realise with fibre the choice should be there and not all of us want to use our connections as you do? Then again being a fan of BT that usage probably consists of one email a month before your cap or throttle kicks in
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
Go buy your service elsewhere then!


...oh wait. lol
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"Go buy your service elsewhere then!"

What other companies apart from BT offer a connection in excess of 20Mb both on down and up stream?
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
my point. you want to moan about BT but then their the only ones who could offer you the package you want, albeit not at the price your prepared pay.
Posted by cyberdoyle over 8 years ago
BT could offer it at a price people could afford if they tried. They won't try, because it is far easier to milk the obsolete network that is on copper. Pure profit for the fat cats on a network designed for voice.
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
You have no idea of the costs involved, don't pretend to.

Consider how many times the UK cable companies changed hands due to the cost of putting in their network, consider how many telco's went out of business in Japan putting in their world leading network, its not as cheap as you'd like to think.
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 8 years ago
@Dixi - When they fix the forums to work (it never ever recognises my cookies, which no other forum or web pages I use have issues with), sure! I've been complaining about that for years now.

And yes, I'm sure you want more regulation to further strangle BT's ability to compete. "If they wait", right, so they can see no profit as technology moves on, leaving their old tech in the dust and then being forced to invest billions more...
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 8 years ago
Carpet - If you happen to live in the tiny parts (main cities) which are wired, sure. And then, you might be surprised by a lot of the limits put on those lines.
Posted by Dixinormous over 8 years ago
@Dawn - is being able to charge whatever they wish for GEA access via FTTC not enough?

Evidently not. It's gentler regulation than virtually anywhere else in Europe though, and I don't see huge amounts of complaints from them, though they didn't screw themselves over recently through other failed ventures. Have you considered a career in BT Regulatory Affairs?
Posted by Dixinormous over 8 years ago
Spectre - how many times did NTT go out of business doing the fibre build?
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
"Spectre - how many times did NTT go out of business doing the fibre build?"

NTT didn't go out of business, its stock took a dive. NTT covers 2/3 of Japan but is by no means the only Telco, the others didn't fare so well. Still to my point that it isn't as easy as some here would like to make out.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3223-fibre-roll-out-in-japan.html
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 8 years ago
@Dixi, er? Pointing to one figure, and claiming it's not restrained (to which, nuts) compared to the massive amounts they have to spend in oher fields..

You make the perfect model of a government bureaucrat.
Posted by mickerickerous over 8 years ago
Regulated markets don't work, note financial crash. If the UK wants a fibre network to pavement or premises now is the time for the government to invest in it, it is a national strategic resource. Only Openreach has the fibre backbone from which to deploy it
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"my point. you want to moan about BT but then their the only ones who could offer you the package you want, albeit not at the price your prepared pay."

Huh they dont offer anything i want and i dont pay them for my broadband. BT can not match the speeds, price or usage i currently get from a LLU company. BTs fibre will be no different either, even if i offered them £100 a month... even £200 it would still run slower on the upstream than our Euro colleagues fibre services... They can keep their messed up fibre just like their ADSL MAX and ADSL2+ services where the sun does not shine.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"BT could offer it at a price people could afford if they tried. They won't try, because it is far easier to milk the obsolete network that is on copper. Pure profit for the fat cats on a network designed for voice."

Id say thats a fair comment, profits go into fat cats pockets more than services.... The so called network from BT you are also correct in saying it was designed for voice, is still only meant to be for voice and the VERY CORE has not been updated technically in years
Posted by Somerset over 8 years ago
Source regarding BT core network please.
Posted by Somerset over 8 years ago
Isn't the pre 21CN voice network separate from the internet part?
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 8 years ago
So, Carpet, you're saying you're not dependent on BT's last mile? If you use a LLU company, you are still entirely and utterly dependent on BT for your broadband.

And no, the "profits" don't get made because they have to spend so much on government regulation, supporting such things as LLU.
Posted by Spectre_01 over 8 years ago
Don't worry, CB has a 'special' line.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"Source regarding BT core network please."

Huh you need a source that explains what a telephone pole and copper cable actually is?

quote"Isn't the pre 21CN voice network separate from the internet part?"

I dont believe so, i recall a video on here showing the work BT were doing to an exchange to make it 21CN ready (I cant find the news story now) but from what i recall they just removed one piece of equipment and replaced with another
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"So, Carpet, you're saying you're not dependent on BT's last mile? If you use a LLU company, you are still entirely and utterly dependent on BT for your broadband."

Err if its BT copper like you state (which i agree on) why is my LLU company even paying BT.

quote"And no, the "profits" don't get made because they have to spend so much on government regulation, supporting such things as LLU."
Nah BT profits get made because they other rubbish services for top dollar.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 8 years ago
quote"Don't worry, CB has a 'special' line."

Indeed, its alot more special than the BT faithful and runs at more than double their speed.
I guess to you thats special, to me its perfectly normal as i dont use BT based systems for my broadband.
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