March update from Telecommunications Adjudicator
Friday 04 April 2008 15:58:47 by Andrew Ferguson
The monthly figures from the Office of the Telecommunications Adjudicator for March 2008 are now available. The headline numbers are that the UK has 4,299,000 unbundled lines, with some 4,670,000 lines using a Wholesale Line Rental (WLR) product and 5,850,000 using Carrier Pre-Selection (CPS).
Interestingly the number of LLU and WLR lines has climbed significantly since December 2007 but the number using CPS has dropped by around 40,000. The most likely explanation is people switching from a calls provider to a calls and line rental provider. The report does not provide a split between the number of shared LLU and full LLU lines. Full LLU is where the communications provider unbundles both the voice and broadband parts of a telephone line. The largest provider using full LLU is Talk Talk, some providers such as Sky Broadband use shared LLU and a WLR product to provide the line rental element currently.
The update for March 2008 shows that discussion on sub-loop unbundling is ongoing, but it appears those providers interested in it are now at a stage where they may be able to move forward and put together their investment plans to see if the money men are happy to pay for a product roll-out.
The new Migrations Code Of Practice is now expected to be published publicly in April 2008 and is designed to be an authoritative guide and reference manual for migrating around the myriad of telephone/broadband products that now exist in the UK. This guide is very much needed as people and broadband providers seem to often get confused over the differences between full and shared LLU.
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Topic: Regulation |
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Posted by
andrew (
staff member)
6 months ago
Apart from people migrating between LLU providers and from one MPF to SMPF provider perhaps, hence the new code of practice
staff member)
6 months ago
Apart from people migrating between LLU providers and from one MPF to SMPF provider perhaps, hence the new code of practice
Posted by
herdwick 6 months ago
It is but a small world though :-
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/mapping/custommap.php?q=all_llu
It is but a small world though :-
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/mapping/custommap.php?q=all_llu
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
Yeah. It's easier to offer a good service level when you pick and choose who you supply to.
Put another way:The LLU operators don't supply their service to exchanges where they would encounter problems. Is it any surprise that they have fewer problems?
Still - as an LLU customer myself I have to concede that I'm very pleased.
Yeah. It's easier to offer a good service level when you pick and choose who you supply to.
Put another way:The LLU operators don't supply their service to exchanges where they would encounter problems. Is it any surprise that they have fewer problems?
Still - as an LLU customer myself I have to concede that I'm very pleased.
Posted by
chrysalis 6 months ago
why the fact LLU doesnt cover villages is seen as a big problem?
why the fact LLU doesnt cover villages is seen as a big problem?
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
@Chrysalis:I see it as a potential problem because it means that the LLU providers are targetting the best customers and leaving BT to deal with the rest. People living in remote areas are already difficult to supply and if they only have one supplier they are either going to get a very poor service or else the supplier is going to have to raise prices.
Basically I see LLU depriving BT of the chance to use 'townies' to subsidise the less well off.
@Chrysalis:I see it as a potential problem because it means that the LLU providers are targetting the best customers and leaving BT to deal with the rest. People living in remote areas are already difficult to supply and if they only have one supplier they are either going to get a very poor service or else the supplier is going to have to raise prices.
Basically I see LLU depriving BT of the chance to use 'townies' to subsidise the less well off.
Posted by
chrysalis 6 months ago
In most walks of life targeting is done, e.g. bus companies drop bus routes that dont make money.
I cant see why BT (and the isps) cant just charge more in these areas then everyone is happy, the villages still have broadband availability albeit a more expensive price and town people stop subsidising them at least not as much.
In most walks of life targeting is done, e.g. bus companies drop bus routes that dont make money.
I cant see why BT (and the isps) cant just charge more in these areas then everyone is happy, the villages still have broadband availability albeit a more expensive price and town people stop subsidising them at least not as much.
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
@Chrysalis:I guess you don't live in a remote area then. Or aren't attached to one of the many urban exchanges that due to their age are expensive to upgrade.
IOW:"I'm all right, Jack - sod the other guy".
It's okay if those on the bottom exchanges just get a slightly worse experience, or pay slightly more. Unfortunately what I see is them getting an appalling service or paying a horrible premium. It's compounded IMO by the rest of us getting something we don't really need.
@Chrysalis:I guess you don't live in a remote area then. Or aren't attached to one of the many urban exchanges that due to their age are expensive to upgrade.
IOW:"I'm all right, Jack - sod the other guy".
It's okay if those on the bottom exchanges just get a slightly worse experience, or pay slightly more. Unfortunately what I see is them getting an appalling service or paying a horrible premium. It's compounded IMO by the rest of us getting something we don't really need.
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
[continued]..and I'm particularly amazed that you can justify giving remote areas crappy broadband because they also get crappy bus services.
Have you no shame or did I misunderstand you?
[continued]..and I'm particularly amazed that you can justify giving remote areas crappy broadband because they also get crappy bus services.
Have you no shame or did I misunderstand you?
Posted by
andrew ( staff member)
6 months ago
Ironically I think people will actually find that having poor access to other services can make broadband more important to people in rural areas.
staff member)
6 months ago
Ironically I think people will actually find that having poor access to other services can make broadband more important to people in rural areas.
Posted by
MCM999 6 months ago
@AndrueC
So as a city dweller I am not only expected to pay higher council tax to cover policing and other inner city problems but also higher utility bills such as ISP costs to subsidise those who, often through choice, live in less populated areas where utility companies supply costs are higher.
@AndrueC
So as a city dweller I am not only expected to pay higher council tax to cover policing and other inner city problems but also higher utility bills such as ISP costs to subsidise those who, often through choice, live in less populated areas where utility companies supply costs are higher.
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
@MCM999:Yes, up to a point.
The question is how much extra you are prepared to pay and/or how badly you'll let someone suffer just because you don't know them personally or don't approve of them.
I like to think that the UK is a country of equals and to me that means helping out the less fortunate and trying to avoid sidelining one group of people.
I'll also point out that not all these exchanges are remote. Some of them are in built up areas and don't have LLU simply because it's an old exchange with old wiring. Is that also the resident's fault?
@MCM999:Yes, up to a point.
The question is how much extra you are prepared to pay and/or how badly you'll let someone suffer just because you don't know them personally or don't approve of them.
I like to think that the UK is a country of equals and to me that means helping out the less fortunate and trying to avoid sidelining one group of people.
I'll also point out that not all these exchanges are remote. Some of them are in built up areas and don't have LLU simply because it's an old exchange with old wiring. Is that also the resident's fault?
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
AndrueC - can you name any 'old exchanges with old wiring'.
AndrueC - can you name any 'old exchanges with old wiring'.
Posted by
Dawn_Falcon 6 months ago
chrysalis - Under 21CN? They *are*
chrysalis - Under 21CN? They *are*
Posted by
AndrueC 6 months ago
Off-hand, no. There are however exchanges serving large urban populations that have yet to be LLUed. The point I am making is that even you're prepared to put the blame on people for living in villages it still leaves a lot of people who can't get LLU despite living in a town or even (so I've heard) some cities.
Off-hand, no. There are however exchanges serving large urban populations that have yet to be LLUed. The point I am making is that even you're prepared to put the blame on people for living in villages it still leaves a lot of people who can't get LLU despite living in a town or even (so I've heard) some cities.
Posted by
_sjr_ 6 months ago
Indeed, Hastings, for example is a town of 85000 people and has 3 exchanges; one main one serving 32000 residential premises and two others serving 8000 residential premises between them. Neither of the smaller exchanges has *any* LLU operators. Even the main exchange only has Sky, TT and Bulldog so Sky is the only choice on a BT line. You can't even sign up with Bulldog now.
Indeed, Hastings, for example is a town of 85000 people and has 3 exchanges; one main one serving 32000 residential premises and two others serving 8000 residential premises between them. Neither of the smaller exchanges has *any* LLU operators. Even the main exchange only has Sky, TT and Bulldog so Sky is the only choice on a BT line. You can't even sign up with Bulldog now.
Posted by
Somerset 6 months ago
That's down to the LLU people deciding it's not worth going into a particular exchnage.
That's down to the LLU people deciding it's not worth going into a particular exchnage.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"Yeah. It's easier to offer a good service level when you pick and choose who you supply to."
Bt are no different, they picked who got 1Mb and 2Mb services first, they picked who got 8Mb first and they have picked who will get 21CN first while others wait a possible 2 years more for it.
quote"Yeah. It's easier to offer a good service level when you pick and choose who you supply to."
Bt are no different, they picked who got 1Mb and 2Mb services first, they picked who got 8Mb first and they have picked who will get 21CN first while others wait a possible 2 years more for it.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"Put another way:The LLU operators don't supply their service to exchanges where they would encounter problems. Is it any surprise that they have fewer problems?"
Sounds like common business sense to me :)
quote"Put another way:The LLU operators don't supply their service to exchanges where they would encounter problems. Is it any surprise that they have fewer problems?"
Sounds like common business sense to me :)
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
quote"........Even the main exchange only has Sky, TT and Bulldog so Sky is the only choice on a BT line. You can't even sign up with Bulldog now."
If the excahnge is talk talk (CPW), Easynet (sky, ukonline) enabled what other LLU players do you want at those exchanges?? Theonly other large player likely to touch it is 02/Bethere. Every other LLU player samknows lists is basically small fry andonly concentrate on certain areas of the country (well except for Tiscali and you would have to be mad towant them at you exchange anyway).
quote"........Even the main exchange only has Sky, TT and Bulldog so Sky is the only choice on a BT line. You can't even sign up with Bulldog now."
If the excahnge is talk talk (CPW), Easynet (sky, ukonline) enabled what other LLU players do you want at those exchanges?? Theonly other large player likely to touch it is 02/Bethere. Every other LLU player samknows lists is basically small fry andonly concentrate on certain areas of the country (well except for Tiscali and you would have to be mad towant them at you exchange anyway).
Posted by
_sjr_ 6 months ago
CARPETBURN - If the excahnge is talk talk (CPW), Easynet (sky, ukonline) enabled what other LLU players do you want at those exchanges??
I want Be! I'd give UK Online a punt if they didn't insist on a 12 month contract but alas they do.
CARPETBURN - If the excahnge is talk talk (CPW), Easynet (sky, ukonline) enabled what other LLU players do you want at those exchanges??
I want Be! I'd give UK Online a punt if they didn't insist on a 12 month contract but alas they do.
Posted by
CARPETBURN 6 months ago
Oh i see so what you were saying is nothing to do with if an exchange is LLU enabled by providers but more to do with it being enabled by the provider you PERSONALLY want.
Hastings main exchange seems to have a few choices which im sure many that have no LLU choice would be more than happy to get, my exchange isnt bethere enabled until the summer (or so they say it will be, ive heard that from bethere before) Im with ukonline and as long as you are not a million miles from the exchange the service IMO is just as good. I wont be rushing off to bethere.
Oh i see so what you were saying is nothing to do with if an exchange is LLU enabled by providers but more to do with it being enabled by the provider you PERSONALLY want.
Hastings main exchange seems to have a few choices which im sure many that have no LLU choice would be more than happy to get, my exchange isnt bethere enabled until the summer (or so they say it will be, ive heard that from bethere before) Im with ukonline and as long as you are not a million miles from the exchange the service IMO is just as good. I wont be rushing off to bethere.
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Looks like all is rosey in the LLU world :)