Skip Navigation


Bonding unbundled copper lines creates Ethernet first mile solution
Friday 26 October 2007 10:22:16 by Andrew Ferguson

How does an up to 100Mbps connection sound? Attractive I am sure, but this deal is aimed at businesses who want something more than your usual ADSL/SDSL/ADSL2+ solutions.

Entanet is going to offer an Ethernet First Mile service around some exchanges in the Birmingham and Wolverhampton areas. This will bond multiple unbundled copper lines to create a single connection capable of up to 100Mbps. We asked Entanet roughly how many pairs would be needed on a line that was nominally 3.5km long and the reply was roughly 40 pairs currently, reducing to around 20 pairs in March 2008.

For businesses whose operations are heavily dependent on reliable connectivity between central and regional offices, uncontended connectivity solutions make commercial and technical common sense. They make the network a reliable platform for run critical business applications such as Citrix, terminal services and voice over IP and provide continuous and fast Internet access.

James Blessing, Chief Operating Officer at Entanet

Comments

Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Well its far from perfect but its a start... A big pat on the back for Entanet, well done to them for coming up with a solution of sorts that can give high speed. :)
Posted by polarised over 9 years ago
Interesting BUT

BT don't normally have that quantity of spare pairs kicking around.. so i would imagine they are going to have to lay more copper specifically for this.

Surely fiber leased line is going to be cheaper to lay.. based on the price of copper?


and I'd hate to be doing fault diags on that line... woosh tests on 40 pairs?

Fault rate on that kinda line.. 1 pair causing problems?


Posted by KarlAustin over 9 years ago
I was thinking the same with spare pairs as well. Took them 25 mins to find a spare pair for another line at our office - and we're 200 yds from the exchange as the crow flies.
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
Hmm and at 75 quid a pair setup that is 4k in setup and a damn big Actelis box on the end, probs around 12k per end for that. Then ongoing of 40 pairs at a tenner a month = 400 pm plus bandwidth to Brm exchange, 100meg Les from London = 2k per month roughly plus 5-10per megabit for transit plus and LCU/MCU in the exchange. This just doesn't stack up against a LES from a neary pop...
Posted by Jamiepw over 9 years ago
There is also the issue of lag, with normal bonded cables to get the bandwidth raised can cause higher ping times on a few pairs, i cannot begin to imagine what the lag will be with 40 pairs?

Let alone a faulty pair?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Who cares about technicalitys and possible issues, the fact remains the company are offering a service for businesses that will be truely fast and work.

Now if you all want to moan about something how about possible monthly cost for the consumer/business that wants it. I imagine that slight issue far outweights stuff like 10ms on your ping time.
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
@CARPETBURN

My point is is that at 3.5km length, a WES circuit / NNE circuit etc will be cheaper, more reliable, cheaper setup and arrive on GLASS not 800 bits of crap copper...
Posted by polarised over 9 years ago
@CARPETBURN

i can't see why anyone would want to pay more money.. for a new service delivery method that is already available in a tried and tested product, and is cheaper!
Posted by Jamiepw over 9 years ago
The technology has been around for some time to deliver high bandwidth to premises, but most people do not seem to want to consider this, to those out there that may be in the dark, i am talking about "Wireless".

I have a lot of experience with wireless and to get 100Mbps+ from an exchange to anywhere to 5miles+ is easily done. There is the proviso that there is a good line of sight or in some cases this is not necessary as the technology is advancing.

Is extreme cases i could set up a link that could do towards Gigabit speeds, nuf said....
Posted by adriandaz over 9 years ago
Jamiepw, microwave surely?
Posted by chrysalis over 9 years ago
This offer is backwards thinking, selling a 100mbps service on obselete and unreliable technology.
Posted by 2doorsbob over 9 years ago
pete k has a piont here ..if i was that company i'd stick fibre in ..and look at ways of making money out of it ..plus could this cause capacity issues in the exchange..bonding 3 or 4 lines would be a good idea to use as a backup this can be done with linux by the company themselves
Posted by 2doorsbob over 9 years ago
plus hsdpa ..hsopa and wimax all making progress towards 100mbps ..bt will have to think about there market in the next 5 years the need for a fixed line is depleting with every advance made..
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
wireless is un-reliable poop, one bad storm and there goes the connection along with any productivity at your company.
Fibre would had been the ideal solution, but i suspect it would have cost them more to do than this system.
As for it being backwards, id sooner it be backwards than not have it at all, if i went to BT right at this moment or many other ISPs and asked for a 100mbit connection they cant provide it to my business even if money is no object
Posted by herdwick over 9 years ago
"if i went to BT right at this moment or many other ISPs and asked for a 100mbit connection they cant provide it to my business even if money is no object" - so you clearly haven't tried it, as you could have such a service anywhere "if money is no object".
Posted by Somerset over 9 years ago
CARPETBURN - have you asked? Where are you? Why is it a problem?
Posted by adancy over 9 years ago
BT will supply BTNet Premium circuits (usually based on LES100/1000) anywhere in the country. When we were looking we were told there's three price bands:

- Inner London
- Within 15km of a POP
- Rest of the UK

We got a 100mb bearer (with 3mb lit at the moment) for about £10k / year.

Amusingly we got a free install deal, and then BT realised there was no spare fibre in the area. They ended up having to dig 3km to lay a new fibre spine, and because of the free install deal they had to absorb the cost! People may criticise BT but no-one else would have honoured such a deal.
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 9 years ago
Once the agreement's signed if they didn't deliver you could sue them. So yes, other companies would honor it.
Posted by returner over 9 years ago
@ Dawn_Falcon

You're not familiar with E&OE then..?
Posted by Jamiepw over 9 years ago
adriandaz

Yes i am referring to Microwave, but in the 5.8Ghz range there is some kit that can do up to 300Mbps total throughput over some long distances.

Mind you the price of Microwaves are quite reasonable compared to an estimated cost that PeteK referred to, in fact a nice saving.

Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"so you clearly haven't tried it, as you could have such a service anywhere "if money is no object"
My business can not have it, we are based on a trading estate, there is an exchange off some type on this estate which controls the estates phone and internet lines, (dont ask me how it works, dont know dont really care) which i believe is not owned by BT but the industrial estate owners. Whatever the case BT have said no can do. continued>>>
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
When the engineer came he couldnt even touch the cabinet for whatever reason, maybe cos its not BT owned, I dont know the full ins and outs couldnt be bothered to waste time to pursue it with them any further.
Posted by Jamiepw over 9 years ago
Again, this looks like a load of spin, another headline grabber that will tend to stick in the minds of the public, it does not matter that the 50 years old cable in the ground will not support it.

Nor the fact that like Carpetburn has confirmed that a lot of the infrastructure is not owned my BT or Bt does not have control over the kit.

Spin, spin, spin, just like the so called 99% of the population who are supposed to get Broadband.....
Posted by Somerset over 9 years ago
Jamiepw - what infrastructure?

We need to know more about this trading estate. How would a comms company provide circuits to a particular building?
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 9 years ago
returner: E&OE refers to errors pre-contract only (that is, it's helpful in revising prices right up to the moment you sign..)
Posted by Jamiepw over 9 years ago
Somerset,

I was commenting on Carpetburns's remarks, that the initial allowance for cables would not be enough to allow for this type of upgrade, hence the lack of infrastructure.

I cannot see BT putting 40 pairs to each and every business on an industrial estate on the pretense that some businesses may opt for the 100Mbps jobbie.

Btw has anyone noticed how high the price of Copper is at the moment?
Posted by Jamiepw over 9 years ago
Somerset,

Personally i would opt for a wireless link, as mentioned in my previous comments, they can easily handle in excess of 100Mbps each way and for reasonable prices, after the initial install there would only be the light-license fees and the mast rental (If any) to pay for, in time it would be a lot cheaper than the 40 pair option.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"I cannot see BT putting 40 pairs to each and every business on an industrial estate"
As mentioned i dont think its owned by BT anyway so thats irrelevant.
The company that provides the interent and telephone service to the businesses on the estate will provide you with as many phone lines and interent lines as you want (we have 3 seperate internet connections and 8 phone lines). The fastest internet speed they offer is 50Mb, i dunno how its provided though, as said i havent bothered looking into it too much, all i know is im happy with what im charged and it does the job reliably.
Posted by herdwick over 9 years ago
" there is an exchange off some type on this estate which controls the estates phone and internet lines" - so this is a restrictive practice of the estate owner, not a BT limitation as you can have hundreds of Mbits/s wherever you want if you pay the cost.
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
@adancy

Blimey, give me a shout at those prices, I can wipe the floor with that. Trying to avoid the blatant advert, you can find me in the TB forums as PeteK!
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"so this is a restrictive practice of the estate owner, not a BT limitation as you can have hundreds of Mbits/s wherever you want if you pay the cost."
As i said i havent looked into it enough to know what system is in place, or who controls what parts of the system, I also did NOT say it was a BT limitation i simply said they cant provide me with speeds previously mentioned.
Posted by Somerset over 9 years ago
So you are saying BT can't provide a 100Mb link to your site?
Posted by KarlAustin over 9 years ago
I'd imagine BT can technically provide it, but the estate owner won't let them dig up their property - because they want all the revenue from telecoms services.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
No thats not the case KarlAustin, the estate has Virgin cable running around it also i think which came after the estate was up and running, so you can have a service from them i believe... Again though its not 100Mb.
I think BT wont touch it because either 1)whoewver owns the exchange or whatever there (again dont know enough about the system in place) would charge BT a fortune to use it and 2) If thats the case BT dont want to know. I think it literally boils down to something as simple as that.
Posted by Somerset over 9 years ago
BT would not need to use 'the exchange'. So there are no BT 'manholes' in the roads or pavements?
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
@Somerset

We have a customer in a bus park like this. The service is provided by a Sheff based. They only have 34Meg to the estate and a small comms room in one of the buildings. They dsitribute on VDSL2 around the estate and route everything on a POS Dell server with Linux on it. They will only sell 25meg max to a single customer and will not upgrade.
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
Pt2

even tho one customer wanted 50meg. There is no BT infrastructure in the park and the landlord refuses to give wayleave for BT to dig. Basically the landlord gets a back hander from the telco (I think) who provide isdn2/pstn. They don't even do ISDN30s.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
yea its something like that petek, with the exception the owner will let companys dig up the estate... providing of course like a sensible business person the price they offer is right. BT and others wont pay, so they cant give me 100Mb... so much for will provide anyone as the BT fans here said.
Virgin paid up but must of made a massive loss on us because the default estate system allows my business and others 50Mb lol which is faster than virgins throttled rubbish.
Posted by Somerset over 9 years ago
probably some european directive somewhere says that is unfair...
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Probably is Smoerset but it isnt worth bothering with, areas of this country still cant have any broadband at all, and its no shock if they wont pay to dig a few holes and lay cable on land with several businesses, where they may possibly make money the rest of the population in the middle of nowhere have no chance, fair or not.
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
Posted by Somerset about 9 hours ago
probably some european directive somewhere says that is unfair...

Err its private property. No one has to allow a telco to wreck it, therefore EU / anti competition laws etc don't come into play.
You must be logged in to post comments. Click here to login.