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More on the wBC ADSL2+ trial
Wednesday 24 October 2007 10:46:44 by Andrew Ferguson

We don't know if BT Wholesale has as yet got the 250 people for its ADSL2+ Wholesale Broadband Connect (wBC) trial, but some more information about the service is included in a press release from Entanet.

It should be pointed out that even if you apply and a service provider takes your details for the trial, BT Wholesale may reject the application as they will be looking for a spread of lines across the ten exchanges.

"As well as Internet access, customers participating in the trial will also be able to make voice calls over their broadband line, with a maximum of £50 per quarter call allowance. Once the trial ends in mid-January 2008, customers that have an existing connection with Entanet will have the option of continuing to use the WBC service or reverting back to their former service."

Carol Davies (Business Development Manager), Entanet

Subsidised voice calls will make this trial more attractive to people, even though the trial is fairly short. Of interest to lots of ADSL users, will be the news that while the upstream will be initially rate adaptive up to 448Kbps, higher upstream rates exploiting Annex M may offer speeds of 2Mbps at some point during the trial.

The wBC service is due to be available in two flavours once launched and service providers will have the choice to mix and match based on their own economics. The managed version wMBC is more akin to the existing IPStream based services with data from the regions being delivered to one location. The pure wBC product provides the data for a region at an aggregation point where the provider can hand it off to their own network. So to cover the complete UK, a provider using wBC would need to link to 20 aggregation points. The pure wBC product is likely to be cheaper providing the location for a region is close to their existing backbone (or someone else's they rent capacity on). This means that the most likely architecture will be a mixture of the two options apart from a few of the very large providers.

Comments

Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"Subsidised voice calls will make this trial more attractive to people, even though the trial is fairly short. Of interest to lots of ADSL users, will be the news that while the upstream will be initially rate adaptive up to 448Kbps"
i definately dont want this then... slow uprate with a fast downrate=pointless (IMO atleast) and as for the call bundle type thing, they can keep that. I cant name one single good calls+broadband bundle and i see no reason this will be any different.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 9 years ago
To complete the quote you chopped off "higher upstream rates exploiting Annex M may offer speeds of 2Mbps at some point during the trial"

Which is what was been referred to.

wBC will offer three upstream rate profiles, up to 448, uncapped up to ADSL2+ max rates and Annex M.
Posted by AdamGz0r over 9 years ago
So BT looking at capping the new service already before its even being used, absolutely dispicable.

Can I also mention that with such a low upload rate it wont be possible to actually download at full speed because of the amount of bandwidth needed to return overheads and such. And seeing as the more upload you use the higher your ping goes its even more less likely that you will get full speed.
Posted by boggits over 9 years ago
Just to clarify, the trial is going to start with 448 to see how it performs and then uncapped to see how that performs.

Its a trial and BT need to test how it works in both conditions.
Posted by MCM999 over 9 years ago
448Kbps upstream should surely be more than adequate for a download rate of 20-23Mbps, not that there would be much upstream bandwidth available for anything much else. I lose around 125Kbps of my upstream bandwidth when downloading at 11 Mbps (Bulldog ADSL2+).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"higher upstream rates exploiting Annex M may offer speeds of 2Mbps at some point during the trial" Yes i missed that bit out because its a worthless remark (no disrespect). The KEY words there are MAY OFFER (ie no promises).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"Just to clarify, the trial is going to start with 448 to see how it performs and then uncapped to see how that performs.
Its a trial and BT need to test how it works in both conditions." Id thought it obvious it would work at 448k seeing as max products can do that and other adsl2+ services far exceed that speed, from that its hard to see what is being "tested". My prophecy about 21CN being throttled comes one step nearer. Another all hype no function BT service is the way i see it.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 9 years ago
The trial documentation (not final product documentation) gives 3 products

WBC Max 8Mbps
WBC Max 24Mbps
WBC Max M

First two have up to 448Kbps upstream and uncapped. The third only offers uncapped.

Fixed Rate 500/1000/2000 products with 288Kbps upstream are available, just as they are on current Max platform.

So if this is throttled - it is as throttled as Virgin Media cable and LLU services.
Posted by herdwick over 9 years ago
"from that its hard to see what is being "tested"" - new MSANs with new configurations, and a completely different backhaul connection arrangement to the ISP. Possibly dynamic line management on the upstream, which doesn't currently exist.
Posted by uniquename over 9 years ago
@Carpetburn - I don't quite see what you are carp(et)ing about. In the absence of FTTC/FTTH most people cannot get over 8Mb anyway, so a cheaper offering than 24Mb, as Be, is very sensible. Equally the proportion of people needing/wanting uploads higher than 448 must be well below 10% of users, though I do find it surprising the 24Mb product doesn't give more than 448.

You also seem to be confusing the trial with the final product - as in "may offer".

Have you suggested to BT they employ you as their Market Research consultant as you think they have so clearly got it wrong?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"So if this is throttled - it is as throttled as Virgin Media cable"
I hope it isnt otherwise the 24Mb service will be shot to bits if you use it daily for any big'ish download.
quote"You also seem to be confusing the trial with the final product - as in "may offer"."
Errr no but i am confused that they should bother testing something that wont be the final product, thats like ferrari testing an F1 car at 60mph and then just saying oh it goes 60mph it MAY do 200mph.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"Have you suggested to BT they employ you as their Market Research consultant as you think they have so clearly got it wrong?"
Why would i want to help a company that whores profits and hypes a service out of all proportion... thanks but no thanks ill stick with my LLU upto 22Mb service with ALMOST double the upload rate, helpful support and probably a cheaper monthly proce than BTs 21CN upto 24Mb deal will be. Defend BT as much as you want i guess in a year or 2 we will see whos right, if im wrong ill eat humble pie, if im right ill gloat even more lol
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 9 years ago
The line WBC product is likely to have varying price points, so 448Kbps upstream will probably be cheaper than the full rate, and Annex M may be another price point.

BT has never been the fastest to market for many things, but it does have a track record of testing and getting ready to scale things to much larger numbers of consumers.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
I hate to think how much this is going to confuse the poor indian so called BT support centre once it gets going. They barely understand how the single service named MAX works now let alone all these 21CN options it looks like we will get. Can you imagine for example trying to explain to their cattle (sorry call) centre you should be getting a faster upload rate and you think you are on the wrong service, or you should be annex M... oh the fun that will be.
Posted by shaunhw over 9 years ago
BE/O2 have already trialled ADSL +2 and it works very well. Dunno why BT have to do it all again <Lol>
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"BE/O2 have already trialled ADSL +2 and it works very well. Dunno why BT have to do it all again <Lol>"
Maybe its to see how low they can drop speeds before the choosen 250 start to moan? Once at that level they know what they can in general get away with palming the rest of us off with when it goes nationwide.
Posted by chrysalis over 9 years ago
Cant argue about BTs track record of testing, unfortenatly the testing seems fruitless as BTs services in particular with adsl max are littered with problems. Varying price on upstream? how about same for downstream?
Posted by bubzz over 9 years ago
Posted by shaunhw 5 days ago
quote: BE/O2 have already trialled ADSL +2 and it works very well

It has been more than just trialled: the full service has been in operation for well over a year. My download speed is app. 15Mb and my upload speed app. 1.2Mb. Annexe M is also available with an upload speed of up to 2.3Mb, but if this is used then the download speed takes a slight hit.

Overall, an excellent service with no download cap!

Prices for Be broaband have recently been reduced considerably, see http://www.bethere.co.uk
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