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Is it really 18 months since Talk Talk started 'free' stampede?
Thursday 27 September 2007 18:01:19 by Andrew Ferguson

Eighteen months seems to fly by in the broadband industry, and Talk Talk will be looking towards recent surveys suggesting its customer support levels have improved as those customers who signed up to free broadband deals come to the end of their contracts in the hope of avoiding a massed exodus. To read what PC Pro had to say on this matter visit www.pcpro.co.uk.

The telephone rental and calls bundle which comes with free broadband from Talk Talk has spawned a whole new industry with almost too many complicated bundles being available now. Though even with all the imitators out there, Talk Talk remains the only major player using fully unbundled services, it looks as if providers like Orange may be taking a simpler route by using a BT Wholesale managed white label service rather than trying to run their own landline operation.

It is unlikely that we will see mass migration away from Talk Talk though, as those on the unbundled service are fully unbundled and as yet moving a telephone line and broadband service from one provider to possibly two seperate providers is still one of the harder things to do in the broadband world. Things should improve shortly as highlighted earlier in September 2007.

The one area that is likely to be a shock for thousands is the cost of returning a line to another phone provider such as BT, which is currently £125. For those leaving a full LLU service and trying to return a telephone line to BT, it is worth considering the various other line rental providers who use the Wholesale Line Rental service, as they offer a cheaper reconnection route. The next few months will reveal how clear this potential cost was to people who signed up to Talk Talk eighteen months ago.

Comments

Posted by greedy4 over 9 years ago
Isn't it free to return a line to BT using return to donor?
Posted by c_j_ over 9 years ago
"The next few months will reveal how clear this £125 potential cost was to people who signed up to Talk Talk eighteen months ago."

Back in them days I had more free time than I do now, and I looked reasonably closely into the CPW service and their multipage multiservice Ts+Cs. I don't remember any such charge being mentioned in the Ts and Cs or elsewhere.

Mind you, isn't it a *BT* charge, not a CPW charge, so why would it be in the CPW Ts+Cs?

Have Bulldog LLUvoice punters been paying this charge to get back onto BT service?

Hmmm.
Posted by andrew (Favicon staff member) over 9 years ago
Bulldog customers on full LLU will have been paying the reconnect a BT line since the charge appeared from Openreach.
Posted by greedy4 over 9 years ago
Not so

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=bulldog&Number=3130812&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"the cost of returning a line to another phone provider such as BT, which is currently £125. For those leaving a full LLU service and trying to return a telephone line to BT"
This IMO is another thing people like ofcom need to sort out, the rules for FULLY LLU unbundled internet and phone are still lacking IMO... Why anyone should have to pay £125 quid for what is effectively just a plugging in of a wire and to switch the people that bill you is beyond me.
Posted by johncollinson over 9 years ago
I gave up with talk talk, I was LLU it was painless and transfer took 10 days for the line, no charge to re-connect BT. Broadband ordered Tuesday, working Thursday morning.
Posted by CaptainW over 9 years ago
I totally agree with Carpetburn and surely such a charge would stop customer's wanting to return to BT?!?!?!?
Posted by PeteK over 9 years ago
@CarpetBurn

While I agree in principle, the LLU Op paid a similar fee for prizing you off of BT in the first instance on the basis they would make this back in revenue. Surely your arguement should be which none LLU op wants my business to pay the re-connection fee, or a "hey Mr LLU Op, you put me on this carp, and now I'm out of contract so you put me back as I was" kind of discussion needs to be had.
Posted by keith_thfc over 9 years ago
"The one area that is likely to be a shock for thousands is the cost of returning a line to another phone provider such as BT, which is currently £125."

If true this is absolutely scandalous as I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in the Talk Talk ads 18 months ago.

Just as with early forced LLU migrations from the likes of Pipex, Plusnet and Orange (which effectively locked customers in due to lack of agreed LLU migration process) this is yet another shocking oversight by Ofcom.
Posted by greedy4 over 9 years ago
BT don't charge to return a full LLU back to them, If you phone BT and ask for a RTD.

I have returned one full LLU line back to BT with no charge and there are posts in the Bulldog forum section, were other proplr have also returned lines for free.

So this talk about 125 quid to go back to BT is utter rubbish

If you want proof, phone 0800 121 8085 (BT reconnection's)and ask how much an rtd costs.
Posted by ETEE over 9 years ago
The problem is that the only practical route at present is from FMPF to BT. BT charge £125 to activate a line not for RTD. Other ISPs will not take new customers if they don't have a phone number in the BT database like FMPF phone numbers. Even if RTD works for free you will have to become a BT voice customer for 12 months like it or not in order to get BB.
Posted by Jonessl5 over 9 years ago
Keith_thfc
although an admirable club to follow, I can not understand your post here. No one forced anyone to move to TalkTalk LLU - real or implied. This was total free choice.
Secondly, name a company (or industry) that as part of their sign up package tells you what it will cost to later move to a competitor??
Amazingly naive attitude to business
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Jonessl5 are you totally insane... if after finishing a talk talk contract and you want to move back to BT do you really think for a second it costs them even close to that £125 quid to reconnect you?? The charge is a joke Talk talk or BT should be absorbing the charge, why the hell should the customer, it’s the customer’s responsibility to pay for "SERVICE" from a supplier not in company idiot racy.
@everyone else that agreed with me in principle but saw issues, i did say previously "This IMO is another thing people like ofcom need to sort out".
Posted by Jonessl5 over 9 years ago
Not insane thanks, but I do live in the real world.
Everything subsidises something else, that is how business works. Did you get your mobile free - but on a 12 month contract? Sky give you a free box - on a contract.
Nowhere did I say I agreed with the cost - my point is that if you are stupid enough to take something "free" don't be suprised later when a "charge" appears. There is no such thing as a free lunch, tis you who are insane for expecting it
Posted by greedy4 over 9 years ago


Posted by carpetburn

if after finishing a talk talk contract and you want to move back to BT do you really think for a second it costs them even close to that £125 quid to reconnect you??

It doesn't cost 125 quid
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Ermmm yes and both talk talk and BT AFAIK force you into a 12 month contract or more anyway dont they??? So that £125 charge is even more ridiculous as they are likely to make that and more back from you in the time you are with them. Its also not the real world its a rip off plain and simple which needs addressing. There are still way too many loop holes in FULLY unbundled deals that have not been addressed by ofcom. (continue)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
I do partly agree that to move your phone service from BT to elsewhere and then want to move back to BT you do deserve a bit of hassle, you wanted the cheap deal you got it, to then whine about charges is a bit hypocritical on a personal level, but it doesnt alter the fact its a rip off charge.
Posted by Jonessl5 over 9 years ago
Agreed - the charge (in most situations) is a rip off, but I do strongly believe that individuals and business need to take responsibility for their choices - a lot of people who thought broadband was free 18 months ago are about to learn a hard lesson - it is not Ofcoms role to educate people in lessons of life. TT and BT have done nothing wrong, marketing is a wonderful way of hiding the truth.
Posted by Dawn_Falcon over 9 years ago
Jonessl5, the majority of the people who are affected have no idea it will apply to them. The charge is not mentioned in the T&C's for the services, and even worse many were moved after the start of their contract and in a large number of cases without being informed (as one ISP said, "they're not tech enough to understand")

That's why I consider it slamming.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Also if this charge is not mentioned before you leave BT and/or is not clearly mentioned in any contract then the charge is even more out of order. Im sorry but a regulator needs to take a damn long look at talk talk. Not so long ago there was a story on here about them taking 10 weeks to give people a MAC and now this! The company itself in the past has had numerous issues (not connecting peoples broadband, hours waiting on the phone and so much more) something needs to be done about them IMO. Things like that are things Ofcom should be addressing.
Posted by CaptainW over 9 years ago
I just thought I would add in that Sky will be ready to launch their own WLR(Wholesale Line Rental) service priced at £10 per month in October and as yet from posts on digitalspy and the likes they don't appear to want to charge people £125, however it is a 12 month contract.
Posted by rezz_2000 over 9 years ago
I'm free, I'm free at last but do I really have to pay £125 for someone else to have my custom? one further point... Can anyone recommend who I should transfer to?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"Can anyone recommend who I should transfer to?"

Depends entirely on what exactly you want from a service, it may be best to post in the which isp section of the forum with details of what you want for recommendations.
Posted by Jonessl5 over 9 years ago
Just to raise my head again - much as I do agree that the charge is far too high - it is not TalkTalks responsibility to tell people what a charge may be from another supplier tp change their service at some stage in the future. It is other suppliers roles to point this out to their customers, not a regulation issue.
Posted by Stuartli over 9 years ago
What a moaning lot some of you prove.

You sign up for free broadband as part of a package and then complain, 18 months later, that you will/might have to pay to switch back to BT.

As this would have not been, in any way, foreseeable by CPW a year last April I don't support the moans.

I'm very happy with my TalkTalk3 International package and have been for the past year and a half.

The financial savings alone make it more than worthwhile and I only had one or two minor problems when first signing up - due, in fact, to the sheer volume of new customers.

Posted by Stuartli over 9 years ago
PS

The "free" BB is running at around 6.8MB to 7.2MB, depending on the time of day.
Posted by kingtomo over 9 years ago
anyone who goes on talk talk want there head testing AND feeling
Posted by pilgrim42 over 9 years ago
I've had 18months with TalkTalk with few problems.With the pre-paid telephone calls as well as BB my bills are very much less than they were with BT and dial-up. Good on yer, Talk-talk.
Posted by Maurice-C over 9 years ago
Why would I possibly want to change from TalkTalk International 3 - it's great - one of the best things I ever did!
Maugeo
Posted by stanislas over 9 years ago
My TalkTalk bills are half what I paid BT plus I'm getting a reliable LLU'd 8mbs Broadband link (instead of 2mbs). Think I'd be mad to be changing at the 18 month point. OK CPW have had some problems but touch wood they seem to be overcoming them and haven't caused me massive hassle.
Posted by DonnieD over 9 years ago
Are there any time limits on this Return to Donor thing? I've heard it only works as long as you are still in the BT database. [b]johncollinson[/b], [b]greedy4[/b] How long where you guys with your LLU provider before you used the RTD to go back to BT for free?
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