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Openreach with Fibre to the Premises in 2008
Tuesday 14 August 2007 12:04:53 by Andrew Ferguson

The UK is behind countries such as France in the roll-out of fibre optic cable to the premises (FTTP). In a consultation process with communications providers Openreach is laying out its proposals for a GPON based fibre deployment to Greenfield sites, followed perhaps by Brownfield sites. Indications are that a trial product may be launched in 2008.

Ebbsfleet is the new build estate at the forefront of this, with it being treated as a testbed for any future roll-out. Initially the fibres installed will provide Internet and broadcast TV content with a basic 10Mbps downstream and 2Mbps upstream Internet service. While no pricing indications have been announced by Openreach, the companies taking part in the consultation are calling for pricing roughly in-line with existing xDSL product pricing. Similar pricing is important due to Greenfield sites having no existing copper infrastructure to offer existing ADSL/ADSL2+ services. Higher speeds will be possible with calls by interested parties for 40Mbps downstream and 20Mbps upstream for residential, and for business use, support for speeds up to 1Gbps.

For those who currently live or have a business a long way from their telephone exchange the news that the GPON system should be able to manage a distance of 16km in the initial product roll-out, with extensions to 60km and 100km at later dates is welcome. One would expect in cases of areas that need fibre runs much longer than average that a higher install fee may be charged, but for businesses this one off cost may prove a worthwhile investment.

Comments

Posted by warweezil over 9 years ago
High time Openreach treated all customers equally and upgraded the archaic copper loop, they had thier moneys worth out it time and again, now we deserve some investment.
Posted by Dave2150 over 9 years ago
BT have been trialing FTTH for a few years as I understand it - why they would need to launch ANOTHER trial is beyond me - the capability of Fibre has never been in question.

BT have had the time to test multiple CPE etc already, I cant help but feel this trial is just to waste another few years while they try to get someone else to pay for it.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Erm am i reading this right Ebbsfleet is going to be given 10Mbps downstream (i assume maybe wrongly thats megabits) or around 1MB. I get more than that with my current connection lol.
As for "...a higher install fee may be charged, but for businesses this one off cost may prove a worthwhile investment" TRANSLATION... The consumer is screwed and has to pay BT costs again. Pathetic.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
Get educated guys, Openreach has only been in existance for little over a year, the fact that they are contemplating this is good news and shows they are making changes. The 'Trial' is the first of its kind singe Openreach took the helm with the access network. I'm sure you think Openreach is just BT under a different guise but i'm sure if you ask the LLU operators or Ofcom they will feel differently about it.
Posted by SamC over 9 years ago
I think it's also worth noting that this is beyond a trial - this is a pilot. Openreach have said that the product is expected to launch in Q3 2008 - that's barely 1 year away.
Posted by YaZiN over 9 years ago
@CARPETBURN - You've read one part but not the other; "Higher speeds will be possible with calls by interested parties for 40Mbps downstream and 20Mbps upstream for residential, and for business use, support for speeds up to 1Gbps.” Simply put, the fibre will be capable of 1Gbps speeds when the demand is present.

I’m sure your copper line was capable of whatever speed you have now, but were you shouting for BT to give you “xx”Mbps speeds instead of the initial 512k DSL in 2000?
Posted by YaZiN over 9 years ago
@CARPETBURN - Also, the majority of your posts are almost always BT bashing. It's BT this or BT that. You fail to understand that take away BT and there won't be many (if any) telecom’s companies willing to invest in the national infrastructure the way you want BT to. Instead of just BT bashing, why not suggest a company that will quite willingly do what you want now.
Posted by rian over 9 years ago
Trial? Probably we will get high-priced 50Mbps broadband products with limited "limited" usage on 2010 year.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Its not BT bashing its being realistic, BT instead of investing whore profits and if you read anything financial you would know that. Oh and i did read it all "Higher speeds will be possible with calls by interested parties" TRANSLATION yeah we will do that if you are willing to be ripped of by us. Why should other companies be investing in the growth of an infrastructure BT OWN. I dont see anyone giving me handouts to run my business so why the hell should they. BT are a joke more intersted in share holders than customers and thats the cold facts
Posted by herdwick over 9 years ago
"BT instead of investing whore profits and if you read anything financial you would know that." more tripe. BT invest massively on a continuing basis as is clear from their accounts, and what sort of financial concept is to "whore profits" FFS. Openreach consult with ISPs and other interested parties as to what services they want to see, if these discussions suggests that a 10M service available to every property (irrespective of line length etc) on a development is what the market wants then you can hardly blame Openreach for offering it.
Posted by dgcarter over 9 years ago
FRS_Plunderer is WRONG. Openreach have been in existence for nearly a century, first as Post office Telephones, then as BT.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
Carpetburn, You really don't know how it all works do you!
"Why should other companies be investing in the growth of an infrastructure BT OWN." Openreach are conducting talks with their customers - the service providers, if no one is intrested in using the new fibre lines why bother installing them?
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
It would be like British Rail installing a new track line between two places only to find everyone is happy to use their own cars and arn't intrested in the train. Openreach needs to ensure demand if it is to invest, it will be investing BT shareholder money so it needs to ensure that there are people willing to actually rent the GPON technology from them, if YOU knew anything about the financial world you would know that.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
BT & Openreach are not charities and they are not stupid. I'm sure the various ISP's could install their own fibre optic network if they wanted to, but the chances are they'd go the way of Nynex if they tried, whats the point of heavily investing in something if you go out of business...
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
dgcarter, you want to check that first mate, just because it is part of the 'BT Group' of companies does not mean that as a seperate business it has been in existance for the entire life of the parent company. So how old is BT Cellnet/O2, 100years as well by your logic...
Posted by semo1 over 9 years ago
"BT are a joke more intersted in share holders than customers and thats the cold facts"all companies need to do what's best for their shareholders by law. now that's a cold fact.
Posted by uniquename over 9 years ago
"best for their shareholders by law". Good point, and correct in regard to PLCs, not to private companies so far as I know.

It is also a fact that high BT retail and wholesale prices are usually a result of OfCom insisting on them so the competition can get established. Hence some recent reductions allowed by OfCom. Otherwise BT could just blow all the others out of the market with low retail prices (and wholesale until LLU is dead - though it only exists because of OfCom) then hike them up again, as practised by many large companies.
Posted by uniquename over 9 years ago
However, it is clear that CARPETBURN runs his business at as low a profit margin as possible in order to show concern for his customers. I presume his tax-advantaged company car is a Ford Focus and that he is meticulous in not claiming Vat on private-use petrol.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Re-read my statement,I said "BT are a joke more interested in share holders than customers and that’s the cold facts".I don’t have a problem with a company my own included making a profit;I do have a problem when that profit is not reinvested where it should be.BT cares only about making money,they don’t care about the customer.I could for example use Indian call centres to provide support to our customers and save money just like BT do.I choose not to because when people buy our product/service I believe,in simple terms…giving people their moneys worth rather than frustration.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
As for FRS_Plunders statement of “Openreach are conducting talks with their customers - the service providers, if no one is intrested in using the new fibre lines why bother installing them?” Really are they, so its all the ISPs fault faster speed is not wanted is it? I suppose its also the ISPs fault things are capped and throttled. In that case I can still blame a division of BT, last time I checked there was a BT that also acted as a residential ISP, calling a product unlimited but capping and throttling a it to death.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
As for the “It would be like British Rail installing a new track line between two places only to find everyone is happy to use their own cars and arn't intrested in the train.” Statement, well I guess we kinda have that already (ignoring the British Rail part as that was a public company and not private like BT). You already have privatised rail companies doing that at this precise moment in time. The privatised rail industry does not communicate with its competitors which are scattered around the country, they are forbidded.(continued)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
A company such as Great Western can not communicate with South Eastern area customers to find out what they want in that area, to prevent a monopoly forming, and still encourage fair competition. Its also partly the reason the newer rolling stock we see today is designed differently area to area, my fathers brother has worked in the rail industry for close to 40 years so please don’t even bother to try to lecture me how rail works in this day and age.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
As for “BT & Openreach are not charities and they are not stupid.” Nobody said they were, but looking at todays news story on this site which once again brings up the issue about how some people cant get broadband at all. Given the time ADSL has been available in this country, one has to question why these areas have not been upgraded see the poor folk can atleast have 512k….(continued)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Ah no scrap that its not a question at all, its purely once again because it wouldn’t be that profitable to BT and would mean they have to spend money to improve a service. The only reason they get away with things like this are… 1) because technically they are a private company and 2) because the ball-less likes of ofcom don’t like to upset a monopoly like BT incase they cry like babies, the workers strike like they did a few years ago and start BT start to do even less than they do now. (continued)
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
The whole system to provide broadband in this country is a shambles. Nobody takes responsibility when its perfectly clear where the finger should be pointing.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
wow 7 posts and all of it mindless ranting. Bottom line if your one of the 'poor folk' living out in nice clean air rural areas and unhappy about not getting a luxuary service like broadband you need to move and sacrifice a bit not expect otheres to sacrifice for you to have a high speed link to d/l porno on a lonely friday night.

Seriously the news above is good and shows some action and change, and you manage to still find something to moan about.
Posted by YaZiN over 9 years ago
7 posts and no suggested alternative company/companies that CARPETBURN can give that would quite happily step into BT's position and upgrade the national infrastructure the way he wants.
Posted by YaZiN over 9 years ago
Further to my previous post, a sustainable suggestion.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
YaZiN ya just an idiot, maybe you think a company should come along and create a whole new network for the country to replace BT, there are no alternative cos BT dont like people using their exchanges, Its only because of ofcom and similar rulings companys like bethere were even allowed to use BT exchanges to provide LLU, you numpty.
As for FRS plunderer Ive already explained elsewhere in the latest news story its not just people who live in rural locations, maybe you have been inhaling too many diesel fumes where you live to even think that.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
now now skidmark, don't start getting all pissy and calling people names - Its not nice you know.
Posted by uniquename over 9 years ago
I suggest CARPETBURN buys a few shares in BT Group so he can go to the AGM and complain. If enough shareholders agree with him that BT is not trying to do the best for its customers, in order to retain and increase them and thereby maximise long-term profit, thus maximising shareholder value (as nemo commented earlier this is a legal requirement for plcs that C chooses to ignore), then I am sure they will happily elect him to the Board and even the Chairmanship.
Posted by TheArtist over 9 years ago
Hi Chaps, what really REALLY annoys me is this - I too am a rural living person I cannot get faster that 512 connection with BT doing nought about it in near future. BUT in this day and age,when most people own a mobile phone the next village up(popul.70)AND closer to exchange that me AND get faster BB connection, last year BT upgraded the Pay phone to an all-singing-all-dancing 'send e-mail/text/phone' from here call box!! I'm a dog walker and not ONCE since upgrading have I seen anyone using these phone boxes..I hope the BT shareholders take note of this...
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
BT has a legal obligation to provide public phones, many of which make a loss. Phonebox apparatus is updated on a fairly regular basis anyway so installing ones to do all that great stuff you mention logistacally does not cost much more then not.
Having the facility there can turn a non-revenue generating phonebox into a profitable one, updating the line to handle the ISDN/ADSL service required is no more expensive then providing the same service to a residential
address since the copper pair already exists.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
They are quite popular in towns & citys but the one in your village is probably under used since you country folk arn't used to modern fangled gagetry, give it time and you kids will get used to it.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
Even if underused, a public internet access point is also an advertising tool helping to produce revenue for other parts of the company.
Posted by TheArtist over 9 years ago
Oh c'mon FRS_Plunderer, that's a bit patronising ..since you country folk aren't used to modern fangled gagetry... although you might have been joking.It's not just ONE box I'm talking about, but at least 5 of them! The fact is, very many people now have these facilities, be it Internet connection and/or Mobile Phone at work and home, so why bother going out to use the street box ones??
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
lol ya i was just kidding. You'd be supprised at how many people tell me about the local phone box being out of order and wandering if i'd be able to fix it. They are used but more when people are too poor to have a landline of their own and i guess the same for internet. I don't know much about your bubble village but i'm sure it gets some use and someone would moan if it was taken away. But if nothing else they are billboards for BT's products & services.
Posted by YaZiN over 9 years ago
CARPETBURN - I'll leave you to throw the rest of your toys out of your pram. As and when the UK's communications network is up to your standard, let me know.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote "As and when the UK's communications network is up to your standard, let me know."
It will be up to my standard and many other peoples standard IF or WHEN BT use the billions they make every year to substaintially upgrade the network to match that of some of our developed European and rest of the world friends. Unitl then its several Centurys old moldy copper.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
Oh dear Carpetburn, seems your suffering from 'grass us greener syndrome.'

If you look closly at the countries your no doubt compairing the UK to they arn't as developed as you like to think. Their geography is alot different and the super highspeed coverage really is just confined to their major cities with the bulk of the country left out to pasture.

Seriously post up some examples of these European countries and we'll start debunking tbe myths.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
oh wow, past my bed time, can't spell - oops..
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote "Their geography is alot different"

LMAO yeah and that makes sooooo much difference when it comes to digging a hole in the ground for a cable
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
lol i know it was like 4 in the morning when you posted that so i'll cut you some slack, just let us know which European countries you think are so far advanced of us on a national scale and we'll have a look into why thats the case.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote"so far advanced of us on a national scale and we'll have a look into why thats the case."
Considering we are a small country naming others would be futile as your arguement will then be only a small part of whatever country i name gets superfast speed. My counter arguement in return would be atleast some of them do. Which although you wont agree, is basically using your own arguement about inner city and non inner city areas, the difference between us and other europeans is we only get 8Mb they get 10x that.
Posted by semo1 over 9 years ago
i don't think any company has the cojones to upgrade the uk's infrastructure.
first, there's the red tape. a few years ago ken said "stop digging up the london streets and causing traffic you muppets" or something to that effect (you know those cordoned off road sections that have no one working on them day or night). iirc you now have give a good reason to dig up a road and show a good plan of action but i don't have a source and i can't remember all the details.
Posted by semo1 over 9 years ago
2nd, imagine the disruption that would be caused by a nationwide scheme like that.
3rd, it would take decades for all the copper to be replaced (and labour isn't cheap in this country).
finally, did someone here call me nemo?
Posted by semo1 over 9 years ago
maybe a hybrid of wireless and wired internet can be a short term solution. you can use wireless for general browsing and wired for downloading. that way people doing light browsing won't suffer from ppl that take 'unlimited usage' as a challenge. the box that your isp provides would do all the clever balancing depending on the application so the user wouldn't notice a difference between the 2 delivery methods. also, heavy users should be given incentives to dl during less busy times (unmetered night usage for example). just a wild thought
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
quote " don't think any company has the cojones to upgrade the uk's infrastructure.
first, there's the red tape."
Totally agree with that remark, however there is a bit more to it in this country. For part of the country some of the infrastructure needed is already there, unfortunately BT own it and wont let (atleast not without arm bending) others use it.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
what do you mean BT won't let others use the exisitng infastructure? What was openreach and equivilance all about?
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
"Considering we are a small country naming others would be futile", if you want to make claims then atleast back them up when challenged, but don't expect any awards for putting together a decent arguement.

You made a claim that BT needed to,"upgrade the network to match that of some of our developed European and rest of the world friends" - i just want to know which countries these are. You also now claim that these same mystery countries have 80Mb connections to their population - is that in any meaningful number or isolated cases?
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
I cant be bothered to argue with you anymore, if you dont know what parts of europe and other parts of the world have 80Mb and higher connections, than basically you have nothing to argue about as you are demonstrating a lack of knowledge. In PARTS OF sweden you can have a 100Mbit connection for about the same price as what a typical BT max based product costs here, please dont reply trying to argue sweden have had connections like that in parts of the country for around 3 years. (google proves it).
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
lol You bluffed, i called it, now you throwing your toys...


...i think you need to move to Greenland and enjoy the super high connection speeds there.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
errr bluff, well heres an example, and i dont see any bluff on this page...
http://tinyurl.com/2m9qn4
Unless my eyes lie that says 100mbit and unless its way too early in the morning and my maths fails me i think you will find thats about the same price as some 8Mb services here in the UK cost. Interstingly enough that company also claims to be trying to develop and deliver high speed services to rural areas, that will be another thing BT cant or wont do also wouldnt it. Please insert irrelevant BT bum lick below.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
I don't need to use any BT websites to explain why Denmark has a more advanced broadband infastructure. The residental % of PC ownership in Denmark is over 85% with -5% not using the internet compaired to the UK's scratching at 65% & -10% without internet, since you need a PC in order to use broadband there is a much larger market for high speed internet services in Denmark and also more interest in internet usage. In a capitalist market driven economy this makes the difference in what will be available. http://www.bbwo.org.uk/broadband-3044
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago

Denmark also has its population spread over a much smaller area then the UK 43,094km2 compaired to 242,900km2, it would take alot more cabling to bring Dane like BB services to a population that is less entheusastic about IT & Internet access then the Danes.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
When your looking things like dig costs of £60per meter its not hard to see why the larger a country is the more costly it is to roll out fibre, and when there's less public backing for such products you havet to ask yourself what the point is.
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Finally you admit its cost related, thankyou very much.
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
Of course its cost releated, i never said it wasn't, money = resorces, resorces are finite (economoics 101).
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Right now lets examine how much profit BT make in a course of the year considering 90% of people that have a landline telephone in this country have it through BT (i wont even bother mentioning the amount of customers they have on their residential broadband services) and then lets ask where is the money re-invested? It certainly isnt invested in phone boxes (one near me been out of service 6 months and yes its been reported numerous times) It certainly isnt re-invested in upgrading the centurys old copper network either. Maybe you can tell me where the money goes
Posted by FRS_Plunderer over 9 years ago
Actually it is but anyway :yawn: i'm going to bed, you'll have to investigate that one yourself...
Posted by CARPETBURN over 9 years ago
Really so its invested in upgrading the old copper network is it? Oh that must be my mistake. Obviously im completely wrong and the whole country is fibre based all ready and me thinking its been copper based for years and years was all a horrible dream. Im sure the phone box thats been out of order for several months near me is just a mirage also. Silly me.
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